Understanding Entangled Particles in Different Time Frames

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of relativistic speeds on entangled particles and the timing of state determination in different reference frames. Participants explore the nature of quantum entanglement, the effects of spacelike separation, and the mechanisms behind measurement correlations in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the state of an entangled particle is determined when one member travels at relativistic speeds, suggesting that different time frames could lead to different predictions about when the second particle's state is determined.
  • Another participant asserts that if the particles are spacelike separated, no experiment can distinguish the order of measurements, implying that the timing of state determination is not absolute.
  • A later reply reiterates the initial question about the implications of relativistic travel on entangled particles, emphasizing that quantum mechanics does not provide a clear mechanism for how correlations are established between measurements.
  • In contrast, another participant claims that quantum field theory explains how correlations arise due to the preparation of particles in an entangled state, providing an example involving the decay of a neutral pion and the resulting entangled photon state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of relativistic speeds for entangled particles and the nature of measurement correlations. There is no consensus on how these factors interact, and multiple competing perspectives are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between relativistic effects and quantum entanglement, noting that assumptions about causality and measurement order are critical to the discussion. The conversation also touches on the limitations of quantum mechanics in explaining the underlying mechanisms of entanglement.

BillTre
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
2,745
Reaction score
11,999
Here is something I don't understand which I expect someone here can explain.

If one member of an entangled pair goes on a trip at relativistic speeds, there will be two different frames of observation, with two different elapsed times.
The time frames can get off-set by years, over a long trip.
If one of the pair is interacted with, determining its state, when does this "immediate" effect also determine the state of the other half of the entangled pair (in its different time frame)?

It seems like two different time frames would predict two different times for the second particle to become determined, depending on which time frame was used. Or maybe the "causal" side of the pair sets the interaction?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It doesn’t matter. If they are spacelike separated then no experiment can distinguish the order
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Demystifier, vanhees71, Vanadium 50 and 1 other person
BillTre said:
Here is something I don't understand which I expect someone here can explain.

If one member of an entangled pair goes on a trip at relativistic speeds, there will be two different frames of observation, with two different elapsed times.
The time frames can get off-set by years, over a long trip.
If one of the pair is interacted with, determining its state, when does this "immediate" effect also determine the state of the other half of the entangled pair (in its different time frame)?

It seems like two different time frames would predict two different times for the second particle to become determined, depending on which time frame was used. Or maybe the "causal" side of the pair sets the interaction?
This is precisely the point about quantum entanglement. It's not enough to postulate a FTL communication mechanism, since there is no absolute sense in which one measurement takes place before the other.

Postulating that the two particles communicate fails on those two points.

QM is silent on how nature achieves correlation of measurements on an entangled pair. There's a discussion of the "possibilities" here:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/question-about-an-entanglement-paper.966466/#post-6135402
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and BillTre
QM, or better QFT, tells us precisely, how the correlations are "achieved". It's simply, because the particles are somehow prepared in an entangled state. One example is the decay of a neutral pion ##\pi^0 \rightarrow 2 \gamma##. This creates two photons with momenta ##\vec{k}## and ##-\vec{k}## with total angular-momentum 0 (due to energy-momentum conservation and angular-momentum conservation). This makes an entangled two-photon state
$$|\Psi \rangle = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} [\hat{a}^{\dagger}(\vec{k},1) \hat{a}^{\dagger}(-\vec{k},-1)-\hat{a}^{\dagger}(\vec{k},-1) \hat{a}^{\dagger}(-\vec{k},1)]|\Omega \rangle.$$
Here ##\hat{a}^{\dagger}(\vec{k},\lambda)## is the creation operator for a photon with momentum ##\vec{k}## and helicity ##\lambda##. This is an entangled photon state having all the astonishing properties such states have, particularly you can perform experiments violating Bell's inequality and all that. So QT indeed explains, how the correlations come about, namely in this case simply due to entanglement following from conservation laws.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
733
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
326
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K