Understanding Enthalpy and Work in Constant Pressure Processes

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of enthalpy and work in constant pressure processes, specifically in the context of different states of matter, including liquids and solids. Participants are exploring the applicability of certain equations and principles to various substances, such as water, graphite, and diamond.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the use of the equation for internal energy change in relation to water, particularly why it does not apply as it does for ideal gases. There is also a discussion about the calculation of work for solids using the PV relationship, raising questions about the assumptions behind these calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing clarifications and corrections regarding the application of thermodynamic principles. There is an exploration of the differences between ideal gases and other states of matter, but no consensus has been reached on the implications of these differences.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of thermodynamic properties and the specific heat of substances, noting that certain equations are only valid under specific conditions. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of applying kinetic theory to non-ideal substances like water.

r12214001
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Homework Statement
energy conversion question
Relevant Equations
calculate temperature change
Why I cannot get the right answer by using △T=(3/2)nK△T to solve problem C:

1572714610250.png
 
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Hi r12214001. Welcome to PF!

I assume this is a typo and you meant why can you not use ##\Delta U = \frac{3}{2}Nk\Delta T## to determine the temperature change, where ##\Delta U## is the change in internal energy of the water. Essentially you are asking why the heat capacity of liquid water is not ##\frac{3}{2}Nk##

##\Delta U = nC_v\Delta T = \frac{3}{2}Nk\Delta T## applies to an ideal monatomic gas, which has exactly 3 fully active degrees of freedom. Water is not monatomic and it is not an ideal gas. Water is a complicated molecule. It is a polar molecule and it can vibrate and rotate. There are also degrees of freedom associated with the potential energy for each of the translational and vibrational degrees of freedom. To complicate matters some of its degrees of freedom are not fully active at the temperature of liquid water. So it is very difficult to compute the specific heat of liquid water from kinetic theory. But its specific heat at constant volume is certainly not ##\frac{3}{2}Nk##. Its specific heat is 1 calorie or 4.184 Joules per gram degree Celsius.

AM
 
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You help me a lot!

But there is still a problem related! The question seems a little contradicted to your elucidation before.

As you explaned, W=NKT can only be used in ideal gas.

Why the work for solid Graphite and diamond can be calculated by PV? Because NKT=nRT=PV
1572752624339.png
 
r12214001 said:
As you explaned, W=NKT can only be used in ideal gas.

Why the work for solid Graphite and diamond can be calculated by PV? Because NKT=nRT=PV
Work done at constant pressure is always ##P\Delta V##. And since enthalpy is defined as: H = U + PV, it follows that ##\Delta H = \Delta U + P\Delta V + V\Delta P = \Delta U + P\Delta V## at constant pressure.

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
Work done at constant pressure is always ##P\Delta V##. And since enthalpy is defined as: H = U + PV, it follows that ##\Delta H = \Delta U + P\Delta V + V\Delta P = \Delta U + P\Delta V## at constant pressure.

AM
concept corrected TKS
 

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