Understanding Entropy and Free Energy in Chemical Reactions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of Gibbs Free Energy and entropy in the context of chemical reactions, particularly focusing on the conditions for equilibrium and the interpretation of free energy changes. Participants explore theoretical aspects and calculations related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why a reaction is at equilibrium when the free energy G of the product equals that of the reactant, questioning the statement that the system has reached its minimum free energy.
  • Another participant suggests that Gibbs Free Energy (ΔG) must be negative for a reaction to be spontaneous, raising further questions about the relationship between Greactant and Gproduct at equilibrium.
  • A participant challenges the equation Gtotal = Greactant + Gproduct, asserting that Gibbs Free Energy is a measure of useful work rather than an inherent energy of the substances involved.
  • It is noted that Gibbs Free Energy is a state function, defined as enthalpy minus TS, and that its values depend on the amounts of reactants and products present.
  • One participant asks how to calculate Gibbs Free Energy for a specific amount of hydrogen at standard temperature and pressure (STP), indicating a need for practical application of the theory.
  • A later reply provides a calculation for the Gibbs Free Energy of 10 grams of hydrogen, presenting a numerical example without further context or consensus on its correctness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of Gibbs Free Energy and its implications for chemical reactions. There is no consensus on the equation Gtotal = Greactant + Gproduct, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationship between free energy and equilibrium.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the dependency of Gibbs Free Energy on the amounts of reactants and products, suggesting that the magnitudes of changes are not constant. There are unresolved questions about the definitions and calculations involved in determining Gibbs Free Energy.

MonsieurWise
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I'm having trouble understanding why in a reaction, when the free energy G of the product equal the free energy G of the reactant, the reaction is at equilibrium. Here, as my book say, the system has reached its minimum free energy. I don't really get why... Could someone explain to me...? Thanks!
 
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Oh...never mind. It seems like the reaction just like the Delta G, not G, to be negative to be spontaneous, right? Now The only thing I don't get is:
Since:
Gtotal = Greactant + Gproduct
when Greactant decrease, Gproduct increase, so how can it say at equilibrium, "the system has reached minimum free energy"?
Thanks
 
MonsieurWise said:
... Now The only thing I don't get is:
Since:
Gtotal = Greactant + Gproduct
when Greactant decrease, Gproduct increase, so how can it say at equilibrium, "the system has reached minimum free energy"?
Thanks

Is it correct to say "Gtotal = Greactant + Gproduct"?

Gibbs Free Energy is the maximum amount of useful work you can obtain from a process not an inherent energy present in either the products or reactants. Where have you seen this equation? It's news to me.
 
Oh, it was in my chemistry book...
 
chemisttree said:
Gibbs Free Energy is the maximum amount of useful work you can obtain from a process not an inherent energy present in either the products or reactants. Where have you seen this equation? It's news to me.

The Gibbs free energy G is just the enthalpy minus TS. It's definitely an inherent property (a state function) of a substance.

MonsieurWise, the question is by what magnitude the Gibbs free energies of the reactants and the products increase and decrease. The magnitudes aren't constant; they depend on the amounts that already exist. At equilibrium, \Delta G_\mathrm{reactant} and \Delta G_\mathrm{product} are equal and opposite.
 
Mapes said:
The Gibbs free energy G is just the enthalpy minus TS. It's definitely an inherent property (a state function) of a substance.

And just how is that calculated? Say I've got 10 grams of hydrogen at STP... What Gibbs free energy is appropriate for that substance?
 
(10\,\mathrm{g})\left(\frac{1}{2.016} \frac{\mathrm{mol}}{\mathrm{g}}\right)\left[0\,\frac{\mathrm{J}}{\mathrm{mol}}-\left(298\,\mathrm{K}\right)\left(131\,\frac{\mathrm{J}}{\mathrm{mol}\cdot\mathrm{K}}\right)\right]\approx -190\,\mathrm{kJ}
 

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