Understanding Epsilon: Why a+e<b for all e>0 implies a≤b

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mathematical implication that if \( a + e < b \) for all \( e > 0 \), then \( a \leq b \). Participants explore the meaning of epsilon in this context and its relation to supremum in a proof involving bounded subsets of real numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the implication, suggesting it only applies if \( b \) is infinite.
  • Another participant provides a context involving supremum of sets and attempts to clarify the proof structure, specifically regarding the relationship between \( \alpha \), \( \beta \), and \( \gamma \).
  • A later reply corrects an earlier statement about the condition, indicating that it should be \( a - e < b \) for all \( e > 0 \) instead of \( a + e < b \), arguing that if \( a > b \), there exists an \( e \) such that \( a - e > b \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the original statement, with some questioning its validity under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of the epsilon condition and its implications.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the properties of real numbers and supremum, which may not be fully articulated by all participants. There is also a potential misunderstanding regarding the original statement's formulation.

Seacow1988
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Why is it true that: if a+e<b for all e>0 then a≤b? What is the meaning of epsilon here?

Thanks!
 
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Hi Seacow1988! :smile:

(have an epsilon: ε :wink:)
Seacow1988 said:
Why is it true that: if a+e<b for all e>0 then a≤b?

uhh? that would only apply if b was infinite. :confused:

Is this part of some longer proof?
 
Thanks for the reply! It's a concept taken from a larger proof:

Let A and B be nonempty bounded subsets of R. Let
S = A + B = {a + b : a in A, b in B}.

We want to show that sup S= Sup A + Sup B

Let α = supA, β = supB, and γ = sup(A + B).

Part 1 of the proof is:

Let e > 0 be given. Since α−e/2 < α = supA, we can find a in A such
that α−e/2 < a. Similarly, we can find b in B such that β−e/2 < b.
Let c = a + b. Then (α + β) − e = (α − e/2) + (β − e/2) < a + b = c
and c belongs to A+B. It follows that (α+β)−e < sup(A+B) = γ.
Since this holds for all e > 0, if follows that α + β ≤ γ.

I don't understand the last sentence.

Thanks!
 
Hi Seacow1988! :smile:
Seacow1988 said:
Let e > 0 be given. Since α−e/2 < α = supA, we can find a in A such
that α−e/2 < a. Similarly, we can find b in B such that β−e/2 < b.
Let c = a + b. Then (α + β) − e = (α − e/2) + (β − e/2) < a + b = c
and c belongs to A+B. It follows that (α+β)−e < sup(A+B) = γ.
Since this holds for all e > 0, if follows that α + β ≤ γ.

This not what you originally wrote :frown:
Seacow1988 said:
Why is it true that: if a+e<b for all e>0 then a≤b?
… this is: if a-e<b for all e>0 then a≤b.

It's because if a > b, then there's an e (= (a-b)/2 for example) with a - e > b.
 
! Thank you so so much!
 

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