Is my interpretation of this three dimensional improper integral correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and execution of a three-dimensional improper integral used to calculate the electric field at a point within a volume charge distribution in electrostatics. Participants explore the mathematical steps involved, the implications of singularities, and the choice of coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the process of calculating the electric field using an improper integral, detailing steps involving the creation of a cavity around the singular point and the relationship between the Riemann integral and epsilon.
  • Another participant suggests that as long as the charge density is continuous, the singularity at the point of interest does not pose a problem, allowing integration over all space without concern for the singularity.
  • Concerns are raised about the use of spherical coordinates when needing to consider multiple field points within the charge distribution, questioning the feasibility of having two origins in a coordinate system.
  • It is proposed that different coordinate systems can be used for different calculations, and that avoiding infinities through suitable summation is preferable to the method originally suggested.
  • A participant notes that the singularity encountered is related to the Green's function for the Poisson equation and does not necessarily lead to divergence in the integral, framing it as a necessary aspect for solving the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the handling of singularities and the appropriateness of various coordinate systems. There is no consensus on the best approach to interpret the integral or execute the proposed steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on the continuity of charge density and the implications of singularities in the context of Green's functions, but do not resolve the mathematical steps or assumptions involved in the original interpretation.

Beelzedad
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TL;DR
Please help me understand three dimensional improper integral in electrostatics in the correct way.
In Physics/Electrostatics textbook, I am in a situation where we have to find the electric field at a point inside the volume charge distribution. In Cartesian coordinates, we can't do it the usual way because of the integrand singularity. So we use the three dimensional improper integral.

##\displaystyle \mathbf{E}=\lim\limits_{\epsilon\to 0} \int_{V'-\delta_{\epsilon}} \rho'\ \dfrac{\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|^3} dV' \tag1##

where:

##\mathbf{r'}=(x',y',z')## is coordinates of source points
##\mathbf{r}=(x,y,z)## is coordinates of field points
##V'## is the volume occupied by the charge
##\delta_{\epsilon}## is an arbitrary volume contained in ##V'## around the singular point ##\mathbf{r}=\mathbf{r'}## with ##\epsilon## being its greatest chord.
##\rho'## is the charge density and is continuous throughout the volume ##V'-\delta##

While taking the limit the shape of ##\delta_{\epsilon}## is kept unaltered

From equation ##(1)##, we can get the ##x##-component of ##\mathbf{E}##:

##\displaystyle E_x=\lim\limits_{\epsilon\to 0} \int_{V'-\delta_{\epsilon}} \rho'\ \dfrac{x-x'}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|^3} dV' \tag2##

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I view the steps of solving ##E_x## as follows:

1. Make a ##\delta_{\epsilon}## cavity (with ##\epsilon=a##) contained in ##V'## around the singular point ##\mathbf{r}=\mathbf{r'}##. Then take the Riemann integral over ##V'-\delta_{\epsilon}##

2. Repeat above procedure for all ##\epsilon## in the interval ##(0,a]## keeping the shape of ##\delta_{\epsilon}## unaltered.

3. Find the function which relates "Riemann integral over ##V'-\delta_{\epsilon}##" and "##\epsilon##". Then make a graph of "##\epsilon##" (##x##-axis) and "Riemann integral over ##V'-\delta_{\epsilon}##" (##y##-axis) over the interval ##(0,a]##

4. Find ##l## ##\ni##

##\forall \varepsilon > 0, \exists \delta \ni \text{when} |x-0|<\delta, |y-l|< \varepsilon##

Thus ##l## is the solution for ##E_x## in equation ##(2)##

Am I correct? Is this the correct interpretation of equation ##(2)##?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If yes:

I know steps ##(1)## and ##(4)## can be done. But is there a way to execute step ##(2)## and ##(3)##? Please explain.
 
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In principle: Yes. In practice no one will do that. As long as the charge density is continuous there is no problem at r'=r and you can just integrate over all space, ignoring what happens at this special point.
 
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mfb said:
In principle: Yes. In practice no one will do that. As long as the charge density is continuous there is no problem at r'=r and you can just integrate over all space, ignoring what happens at this special point.
I guess you are saying we have to use spherical coordinates with origin at ##\mathbf{r'}=\mathbf{r}##. But in some situations, (like in my situation while considering derivative of ##E_x## w.r.t. ##x##) you need to take two field points, both inside the charge distribution. But in a coordinate system you cannot have two origins. So your method of using spherical coordinates with origin at ##\mathbf{r'}=\mathbf{r}## will not work. Wouldn't then we have to go for the method in my original post?
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If yes:

How shall we execute steps ##(2)## and ##(3)## in my original post?

If no:

In Cartesian coordinate, how shall we actually interpret equation ##(2)## in my original post?
 
Spherical coordinates are a typical choice but not the only option.
You can choose two different coordinate systems for the two calculations.
Beelzedad said:
In Cartesian coordinate, how shall we actually interpret equation ##(2)## in my original post?
You never do step 2. You make some suitable sum to avoid infinities.
 
I don't think you should be puzzled by the singularity at ##r=r'##. This singularity is introduced when we find green's function for the Poisson equation and is needed in order for the green's function to satisfy the equation ##\nabla^2G(r,r')=\delta(r-r')## so its a singularity coming from the dirac delta function in a way. It is not a singularity that will make the integral to diverge, it is a singularity that does the trick for the green's function and to solve Poisson equation.
 

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