Understanding Gravity: Properties & Effects

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    Gravity Properties
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties and effects of gravity, exploring its nature, theoretical frameworks, and implications in physics. Participants delve into concepts from General Relativity, the relationship between mass and spacetime, and the potential for new discoveries in gravitational phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that gravity can bend spacetime and occurs with objects that have mass, while others clarify that gravity is the curvature of spacetime rather than a force.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of gravity being always attractive, with no evidence for positive or negative masses.
  • One participant emphasizes that mass and energy are gravitationally equivalent, noting examples like a wound clock or a charged battery that exhibit slight increases in mass.
  • Participants introduce the concept of three forms of gravitational fields, drawing analogies to electromagnetic fields, including static, gravitomagnetic, and gravitoelectric fields.
  • References are made to ongoing experiments, such as the Gravity Probe B satellite and a laboratory experiment by ESA physicists that may challenge existing predictions of General Relativity.
  • Some participants express curiosity about the implications of these findings and the potential for a quantum model of gravity.
  • Questions are raised about the cause of acceleration in masses if gravity is not considered a force, leading to further exploration of General Relativity's implications on spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the nature of gravity, with some supporting the idea that gravity is a geometric property of spacetime while others maintain traditional views. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the fundamental nature of gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of current understanding and the dependence on definitions, particularly regarding the nature of forces and the implications of General Relativity. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical steps in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying physics, particularly in the areas of gravitational theory, General Relativity, and the ongoing exploration of gravitational phenomena.

  • #31
otas said:
But wouldn't it be longer distance for me in spacetime to go to mars, then to be on Earth's surface? Or it is related to the fact that I don't understand what you wrote about negative squered time? :)

The awkward phrase about "negative squared time" refers to spacetime curvature. Please read on. I highly recommend the Wheeler book referenced below.

__________


"Bodies like the Earth are not made to move on curved orbits by a force called gravity; instead, they follow the nearest thing to a straight path in curved space, which is called a geodesic. A geodesic is the shortest (or longest) path between two nearby points.

The mass of the sun curves space-time in such a way that although the Earth follows a straight path in four-dimensional space-time, it appears to us to move along a circular orbit in three-dimensional space.
"

http://www.generationterrorists.com/quotes/abhotswh.html

__________


Moving bodies preserve the same curvature when viewed in three dimensions or spacetime.

See A Journey into Gravity and Spacetime by John Archibald Wheeler, page 9, etc.; Scientific American Library, 1999.
 
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  • #32
I love when these old threads - Sleeping beauties :-) - come alive again.

I have another question regarding curvature of spacetime. Why does the curvature of space seem to depend on the relative velocity of the masses that pass each other.

For example when light passes a large mass it is not deflected from the cartesian straight line as much as an object passing with half the velocity. And an object passing with very small velocity is deflected even more. How does that fit the description of objects generally traveling in a straight line which just curves because of the curvature of spacetime - why does spacetime seem to curve less for a fast object than for a slow object?

Thanks, Henrik
 
  • #33
I think gravity is the property of that system in which two or more than two body exist.
all of you...What r u thinking about gravity?
Is gravity a force?
Is gravity a Energy?
tell me anyone pleasez what is it?
 
  • #34
Talhaarshad:

“Is gravity a force?
Is gravity a Energy?
tell me anyone pleasez what is it?”

The short answer is, in my opinion, that gravity is a negative energy field that manifests as curved spacetime geometry.

Henrik:

“I have another question regarding curvature of spacetime. Why does the curvature of space seem to depend on the relative velocity of the masses that pass each other.

For example when light passes a large mass it is not deflected from the Cartesian straight line as much as an object passing with half the velocity. And an object passing with very small velocity is deflected even more. How does that fit the description of objects generally traveling in a straight line which just curves because of the curvature of spacetime - why does spacetime seem to curve less for a fast object than for a slow object?”

It’s easy to confuse the term ‘spacetime’ with just ‘space,’ because most of us aren’t accustomed to thinking of time as a dimension equivalent to a space dimension. And this gets even more confusing when we’re trying to visualize special relativistic effects and general relativistic effects simultaneously, which your example demands.

For clarity, let’s start by looking at these two spacetime effects individually.

A motionless body (with respect to the observer) that is far from gravitational influences, according to special relativity, moves through time at the greatest rate. In fact, such a body is moving through time at the equivalent of the speed of light (since 3e10cm/sec is equivalent to 1sec/sec by the constant C). So really you can see that nothing is ever motionless in both space and time – a body can move through space at a velocity approaching C, or move through time at a velocity approaching C, or it can move with some mixture of both factors which yields a net spacetime velocity of C. That’s special relativity in a nutshell.

Now we consider our small test mass in the presence of a body with an appreciable gravitational field. For starters, we know that time is dilated (moves more slowly) within a gravitational field, compared to the scale of time at a point far removed from such a field. And as you might imagine, the space dimension within a gravitational field is dilated by precisely the same factor (although inversely – space is contracted by the same degree that time is expanded within the region of the gravitational field). Together, these alterations in space and time define a vector field of acceleration pointed toward the center of mass of the body and this is the effect that we call gravity.

Now we can answer your question: “why does spacetime seem to curve less for a fast object than for a slow object?”

The path of a fast object passing by the Earth (let’s say that its velocity is 1/2C) will only be slightly curved *in space* but its path will be appreciably curved *in time.* For example, compared to a distant observer stationary wrt (with respect to) the Earth, time aboard our fast-moving test mass is approx .866 seconds elapsed for every second that elapses on the observer’s distant clock. The fast-moving clock passing the Earth is slowed by both the velocity of the body (special relativity) and by the gravitational field of the Earth (general relativity), yielding a significant temporal curvature.

The path of the same body as it passes the Earth slowly, on the other hand, will be curved significantly *in space,* but will be only negligibly curved *in time.*

As you might intuit at this point, the curvatures of both examples are in fact equivalent, because the spacetime curvature around a body of stationary matter is a static quantity.

Things get even more interesting however when we consider the ‘twisting’ of spacetime around a massive rotating body, which is known as ‘frame-dragging,’ the ‘Lense-Thirring effect,’ or ‘gravitomagnetism.’ But that’s a whole other ball o wax.

If you’re interested in learning more about this subject, I suggest reading some good papers on the Global Positioning System (GPS), because the GPS satellite and signaling network is essentially ‘applied special and general relativity,’ and its success is a testament to the validity of Einstein’s model of gravity and spacetime.

http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0507121

And as Loren Booda pointed out, Wheeler’s book ‘A Journey into Gravity and Spacetime’ is a wonderful primer for anyone who wants to grasp these concepts, without all of the daunting mathematics that usually accompanies this subject.
 
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