Understanding Gravity Waves: Detected or Theoretical?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of gravitational waves, their theoretical underpinnings, and the current state of detection efforts. Participants explore the nature of gravitational waves, their propagation through space, and the implications of their existence as predicted by Einstein's General Relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how gravitational waves can propagate in the absence of mass, raising foundational concerns about their nature.
  • Others explain that gravitational waves are predicted by Einstein's equations and describe them as ripples in spacetime caused by massive objects, such as supernovae.
  • A participant mentions the ongoing work at LIGO to detect gravitational waves, detailing the experimental setup and its purpose.
  • There is a discussion about whether gravitational waves travel at the speed of light, with some participants affirming this idea.
  • Some participants propose that gravitational waves could be altered or magnified, drawing analogies to ripples in a pond and discussing the potential for constructive interference.
  • Others challenge the idea of stacking gravitational waves, suggesting that their nature may prevent such behavior due to their propagation characteristics.
  • A participant introduces a speculative concept about focusing gravitational waves to achieve a push/pull effect, inviting further exploration of this idea.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature and behavior of gravitational waves, with no consensus reached on several speculative ideas regarding their manipulation and interaction. The discussion remains unresolved on many points, particularly regarding the potential for altering or magnifying gravitational waves.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the rudimentary state of knowledge regarding gravitational waves and the challenges associated with their measurement, which may limit the conclusions drawn in the discussion.

  • #31
If you could somehow move faster than c, or just send a signal faster than c, then one can show that this also enables you to send a signal to your own past. This is explained http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyonic_Antitelephone" .

Special Relativity does not really say that you cannot go faster than c. All it says is that c is an invariant speed and it says how space time coordinates transform from one frame of reference to another. It then follows that faster than c signals can be paradoxical, but http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0107091"

Also, note that you can make your travel time arbitraily close to zero by traveling close enough to the speed of light. So, in this regard, c in special relativity is similar to an infinite speed in classical mechanics. If you let c go to infinity in special relativity (and apropriately rescale some other physical variables in that limit), then you get classical mechanics. Not surprising, as in classical mechanics an infinite velocity is the invariant velocity.
 
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  • #32
I'm not trying to be speculative in a negative way...my "theory" is more of a question. I'm trying to understand the proven theories by looking at them from all aspects/applications.

Perhaps the question I should have posed is WHAT HAPPENS To MASS as it approaches c? Would a mass that reached c be consumed and converted to energy?

My understanding is that light is made up of mass-less protons...but at the same time, doesn't gravity bend light? Would this mean there is some residual mass present?

Another way to ask the question might be...as mass can't reach/exceed c is it because it is consumed...otherwise, where does mass (go) when the proton is created?
 
  • #33
WhoWee said:
I'm not trying to be speculative in a negative way...my "theory" is more of a question. I'm trying to understand the proven theories by looking at them from all aspects/applications.
Questions are always better than than speculations. :approve:

WhoWee said:
Perhaps the question I should have posed is WHAT HAPPENS To MASS as it approaches c?
What happens to MATTER is that its mass increases. In order to reach c, a force would have to accelerate and object whose mass is approaching infinite. This would require an infinite amount of energy to do.

WhoWee said:
Would a mass that reached c be consumed and converted to energy?
No. See above.
WhoWee said:
My understanding is that light is made up of mass-less protons
No. Protons are massive, positively charged subatomic particles. Photons are massless packets of EM energy. Two totally separate animals.

WhoWee said:
...but at the same time, doesn't gravity bend light? Would this mean there is some residual mass present?
No. Gravity bends space-time. Light follows spacetime's curves.
 
  • #34
DaveC426913 said:
Questions are always better than than speculations. :approve:


What happens to MATTER is that its mass increases. In order to reach c, a force would have to accelerate and object whose mass is approaching infinite. This would require an infinite amount of energy to do.


No. See above.

No. Protons are massive, positively charged subatomic particles. Photons are massless packets of EM energy. Two totally separate animals.


No. Gravity bends space-time. Light follows spacetime's curves.

As gravity bends space-time and light follows the space-time curves...at the speed of light...what (if anything) could break free of the curve...is there a theory in the works regarding how a CERN generated anti-matter particle might behave differently?

This relationship is what I was talking about with the rock skipping across a pond...under what circumstances could it be possible...what would need to happen?
 
  • #35
WhoWee said:
As gravity bends space-time and light follows the space-time curves...at the speed of light...what (if anything) could break free of the curve...is there a theory in the works regarding how a CERN generated anti-matter particle might behave differently?

This relationship is what I was talking about with the rock skipping across a pond...under what circumstances could it be possible...what would need to happen?
There is no evidence currently available that suggests anything like this is possible.
 
  • #36
As far as I know, none of our detectors has observed a gravity wave, never ever.

Any other information?

Reasons to hope this should improve soon?
 
  • #37
Lets say gravity waves/particles move outward like a cone. It would be stronger at the point and weaker as it moved outward and less dense. A light wave moves in a tighter wave simular to a ripple in water. The gravity particle would move faster than c because it is covering more area at the same time as the photon. Explains atomic strong force, space time, ect. Maybe possible to skip time on a gravity wave since time is a function of gravity.
 
  • #38
thephoneguy said:
The gravity particle would move faster than c because it is covering more area at the same time as the photon.

No.
Explains atomic strong force, space time, ect.

No.
 
  • #39
TalonD said:
can someone explain gravity waves to me? if gravity is only in the presence of mass then how can gravity waves propagate through space in the absence of the presence of mass? Have gravity waves been detected or proven or is it only theory so far?

Sure
I feel I have a handle on the elusive gravity wave...
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=278773

namaste

Raphael
 

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