Understanding Hermiticity of Actions in QFT for Checking and Confirming

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the hermiticity of actions in quantum field theory (QFT), specifically in relation to the Lagrangian of a system involving Dirac fermions and scalar fields. Participants explore methods for demonstrating the hermiticity of the action based on the hermiticity of the Lagrangian and inquire about relevant theorems or principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a Lagrangian for Dirac fermions and asks how to show that the action is hermitian, questioning if a theorem exists linking the hermiticity of the Lagrangian to that of the action.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the nature of the action, questioning whether it is an operator or a real number.
  • A different participant suggests that the Lagrangian should be hermitian if the corresponding Hamiltonian is hermitian, but raises doubts about the relevance of integrating the Lagrangian over time after it has been converted to an operator.
  • One participant references the Schwinger action principle and recommends a textbook for further reading on the topic.
  • Another participant proposes a method involving the time integral of an analytical function of the Lagrangian, suggesting the possibility of expressing it as a power series and converting derivatives to operators, while linking to discussions on higher time derivatives in classical mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and uncertainty regarding the relationship between the hermiticity of the Lagrangian and the action. There is no consensus on the methods for demonstrating the hermiticity of the action or the implications of the Lagrangian's properties.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the need for further exploration of path integrals and the implications of converting classical quantities to operators, indicating potential limitations in their current understanding of these concepts.

John Greger
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TL;DR
You want your action to be hermitian, how would you check this quickly?
Hi!

In QFT we are usually interested in actions that are hermitian. Say we are looking at scattering of Dirac fermions with a real coupling constant g, whose Lagrangian is given by:

$$L= \bar{\psi}(i \gamma_{\mu} \partial^{\mu} -m) \psi - \frac{1}{2} \partial_{\mu} \phi \partial^{\mu} \phi - \frac{1}{2}M^2 \phi^2 - g \phi \bar{\psi} \psi$$

It's fairly straight forward to show that the lagrangian is hermitian but how would I show that the action is hermitian as well? Is there a theorem or something saying that if the lagrangian is hermitian, so is the action?

What is your go-to method for checking that the action is hermitian?

($\phi$ is scalar field with mass M)
 
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I am not a good learner of QFT. Is action an operator not just a real number ?
 
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The Lagrangian should be hermitian if the corresponding Hamiltonian is, but I'm not sure if there's any point in taking a time integral of it over some ##[t_1 ,t_2 ]## after the time variable in classical Lagrangian function ##L## has disappeared upon it being converted to an operator. Google search revealed some discussions about path integrals being needed in Lagrangian QM.
 
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An alternative is the Schwinger action principle. See his quantum mechanics textbook:

J. Schwinger, Quantum Mechanics, Symbolism of Atomic Measurements, Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg, New York (2001).
 
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If the Lagrangian of a one-particle system is an analytical function, would it be possible to write its time integral as some kind of power series containing arbitrarily high order derivatives of ##p## and ##x## and then convert them to operators like done when forming the acceleration operator in the thread linked below? The Cauchy integral formula allows writing derivatives as integrals, and the opposite seems to be even more easy.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/acceleration-operator.381084/

Also, here's something about quantization of higher time derivatives of the classical position variable:

http://bdigital.unal.edu.co/63666/1...and possible stabilization. Juan Valencia.pdf
 
Last edited:

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