Understanding Index Notation in Tensor Calculus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding index notation in tensor calculus, specifically focusing on the implications of certain tensor operations and the representation of gradients and divergences in index notation. Participants explore the mathematical expressions involving tensors of different orders and the conditions under which certain identities hold.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation E_{ijk} \partial_j \partial_k C = 0 and questions why it equates to \nabla \times \nabla C.
  • Another participant clarifies that if E_{ijk} is the permutation tensor \epsilon_{ijk}, then the expression indeed equals zero due to the antisymmetry of the tensor and the commutativity of partial derivatives.
  • There is a discussion on how to represent the gradient of a vector and the divergence of tensors in index notation, noting that grad and div appear similar in notation.
  • Some participants express confusion about the notation and the implications of tensor ranks, particularly regarding the representation of the gradient of different order tensors.
  • One participant acknowledges a notation error and appreciates the clarification provided by others.
  • Other participants express a desire for discussions on index theorems, indicating a broader interest in the topic beyond the current focus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of the permutation tensor and the implications of the expressions discussed. However, there remains some uncertainty and confusion regarding the notation and the representation of gradients and divergences, indicating that the discussion is not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the notation used may be non-standard, and there is an acknowledgment of potential confusion arising from the ranks of tensors involved in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in tensor calculus, mathematical physics, and the application of index notation in various contexts may find this discussion beneficial.

Peregrine
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I am playing around with learning index notation for tensors, and I came across the following where C is a 0th order tensor:

E_{ijk} \partial_j \partial_k C = 0

I believe this equates to \nabla \times \nabla C. I don't understand why this comes out to 0. Any ideas?

Also, I am trying to understand in index notation how to represent the grad of a vector. The reason I am confused is that it seems that, taking C as a 0th order tensor, V as a 1st order tensor and T as a 2nd order tensor:

div T = \nabla \cdot T = \partial_iT_{ij}
div V = \nabla \cdot V = \partial_iV_i
And of course, div C does not make sense as it would be a -1st order tensor.

But, since:
grad C = \nabla C = \partial_iC
I don't follow how to represent grad V = \nabla V or grad T = \nabla T in index notation; from what I have it seems there would be no difference in notation between grad and div! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Peregrine said:
I am playing around with learning index notation for tensors, and I came across the following where C is a 0th order tensor:

E_{ijk} \partial_j \partial_k C = 0

I believe this equates to \nabla \times \nabla C. I don't understand why this comes out to 0. Any ideas?

The first thing to note is that your notation here is a bit non-standard. If you assume that E_{ijk} is just some arbitrary (0,3) tensor then \sum_{j,k}E_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC\ne 0 in general. However, if you take E_{ijk}=\epsilon_{ijk}, the totally antisymmetric or permutation tensor, then \sum_{j,k}\epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC=0 is trivially satisfied. To see why this is so, note that since partial derivatives commute we can write

\begin{equation*}<br /> \begin{split}<br /> \sum_{j,k}\epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC<br /> &amp;= \sum_{j,k}\frac{1}{2}\epsilon_{ijk}(\partial_j\partial_kC + \partial_k\partial_jC) \\<br /> &amp;= \sum_{j,k}\frac{1}{2}(\epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC + \epsilon_{ijk}\partial_k\partial_jC) \\<br /> &amp;= \sum_{j,k}\frac{1}{2}(\epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC + \epsilon_{ikj}\partial_j\partial_kC) \\<br /> &amp;= \sum_{j,k}\frac{1}{2}(\epsilon_{ijk} + \epsilon_{ikj})\partial_j\partial_kC.<br /> \end{split}<br /> \end{equation*}

However, since one has \epsilon_{ijk}=-\epsilon_{ikj} by definition, one can then write

\sum_{j,k}\epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC = \sum_{j,k}\frac{1}{2}(\epsilon_{ijk} - \epsilon_{ijk})\partial_j\partial_kC = 0.<br />

You are then correct to say that \nabla\times\nabla C=\sum_{j,k}\epsilon_{ijk}\partial_j\partial_kC=0.

Peregrine said:
Also, I am trying to understand in index notation how to represent the grad of a vector. The reason I am confused is that it seems that, taking C as a 0th order tensor, V as a 1st order tensor and T as a 2nd order tensor:

div T = \nabla \cdot T = \partial_iT_{ij}
div V = \nabla \cdot V = \partial_iV_i
And of course, div C does not make sense as it would be a -1st order tensor.

Correct.

Peregrine said:
But, since:
grad C = \nabla C = \partial_iC
I don't follow how to represent grad V = \nabla V or grad T = \nabla T in index notation; from what I have it seems there would be no difference in notation between grad and div! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

You may or may not find this post helpful.
 
Peregrine said:
I am playing around with learning index notation for tensors, and I came across the following where C is a 0th order tensor:

E_{ijk} \partial_j \partial_k C = 0

I believe this equates to \nabla \times \nabla C. I don't understand why this comes out to 0. Any ideas?
...

Not sure if this is the source of your confusion, but notice that the 0 is a component of a tensor with rank(0,1) since only the j and k indices are repeated. i.e.

A_{i} = E_{ijk} \partial_j \partial_k C = 0
 
coalquay,

You are correct that I intended \epsilon_{ijk}. Sorry for the bad notation. But I greatly appreciate the help, I did not think of that approach. Thanks!
 
sillyme, i hoped this was about the index of an elliptic operator, but its the same old same old.
 
A question about index theorems would be nice, wouldn't it? I suspect, however, we'll be waiting a while before we see one...
 

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