Understanding limits of rational functions at infinity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the limits of rational functions at infinity, specifically how to distinguish between those that have the same limit at both ends and those that do not. Participants explore the conditions under which a rational function can yield different limits at negative and positive infinity, and the implications of polynomial degrees in the numerator and denominator.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose evaluating limits at both ends of a rational function to determine its end behavior.
  • One participant suggests that a rational function resulting in a coefficient ratio (e.g., 3/2) indicates the same end behavior on both sides, but questions remain about the conditions for differing limits.
  • Another participant discusses the general form of rational functions and notes that the limits as |x| approaches infinity depend on the degrees of the polynomials in the numerator and denominator.
  • It is mentioned that if the degree of the numerator is less than the degree of the denominator, both limits approach zero; if they are equal, the limits approach the ratio of the leading coefficients.
  • One participant provides an example of a function that achieves different limits at negative and positive infinity, suggesting that such behavior is not typical for rational functions.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of asymptotic behavior and "big O" notation as useful tools for analyzing limits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of evaluating limits to understand end behavior, but there is disagreement about the possibility of achieving different limits at infinity for rational functions. Some participants assert that this is not possible, while others provide examples of functions that exhibit the desired behavior.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for precise definitions and notation when discussing limits, as well as the potential for confusion regarding the behavior of functions as they approach infinity.

Aramin
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Is there a way to distinguish between rational functions that have the same limit at both ends and those that don't? I think I might have answered my own question, but let's say I evaluate a rational function, and it turns out to be a coefficient ratio with no variables (3/2). Does that mean that function will have the same end behavior on both sides?

What is required to have a result of -3/2 at -infinity and 3/2 at +infinity? Does this result occur in rational functions?
 
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Welcome to PF;
Aramin said:
Is there a way to distinguish between rational functions that have the same limit at both ends and those that don't?
Yes - you evaluate the limits at each end.

I think I might have answered my own question, but let's say I evaluate a rational function, and it turns out to be a coefficient ratio with no variables (3/2). Does that mean that function will have the same end behavior on both sides?
"Evaluate a rational function" where? How? What does that phrase mean?

Being careful to say what you are talking about - explicitly - should help you here ;)
 
Yes I definitely would evaluate the limits at each end. I was wondering if there are any rules or patterns in the rational function before being evaluated that might tip this behavior off.

Regarding the 2nd part of my post, I figured it out :)
 
At each end of what?

You know, there is a handy and clear mathematical notation which you can use to express which limits you are talking about.
 
Aramin said:
Is there a way to distinguish between rational functions that have the same limit at both ends and those that don't? I think I might have answered my own question, but let's say I evaluate a rational function, and it turns out to be a coefficient ratio with no variables (3/2). Does that mean that function will have the same end behavior on both sides?

What is required to have a result of -3/2 at -infinity and 3/2 at +infinity? Does this result occur in rational functions?

The limits as |x| \to \infty of r(x) = (\sum_{n=0}^N a_nx^n)/(\sum_{n=0}^M b_mx^m) with a_N and b_M both nonzero are the limits of \frac{a_N}{b_M}x^{n-m}. Clearly this only tends to a finite limit if n \leq m. If n &lt; m then the both limits are zero. A non-zero limit is possible only in the case n = m, where <br /> \lim_{x \to \infty} r(x) = \lim_{x \to -\infty} r(x) = \frac{a_N}{b_M}.<br />
 
Let's say that numenator is polynomial of degree m (with coefficient A before m-th degree term) and denominator is polynomial of degree n (with coefficient B), that is:
Q(x)=\frac{Ax^m+...}{Bx^n+...}

When you go to inifnity those higher order terms dominate. That is no matter what are the coefficients, if you go to big enough numbers highest order term will give number bigger (in absolute value) than other numbers. Therefore asymptotically our function behaves like F(x)=\frac{A}{B} x^{m-n}. This can be made precise by noting that limit of Q(x)-F(x) at infinities is zero (if you know precise definition of limit, try to prove it as an exercise!).

We established that all information about our function is encoded in F. Well from that it is obvious that if n was greater than m then our function goes to zero at infinity. If m>n then it behaves like a polynomial of degree m-n; and those have limits of the same sign at both infinities if their degree is even. Ratio of A to B gives you information if it is positive at positive infinity.

Additionally if you already know about limits i advise you to look up what "big O" notation is, it is very helpful in determining asymptotic behaviour of functions.
 
Aramin said:
What is required to have a result of -3/2 at -infinity and 3/2 at +infinity? Does this result occur in rational functions?

Not for rational functions no. But it's easy to write functions with the properties you want.

First consider ##\sqrt{x^2+1} = \sqrt{x^2(1+x^{-2})}= |x| \, \sqrt{1+x^{-2}}##. Now divide by ##1+x##. We obtain
##\frac{|x| \, \sqrt{1+x^{-2}}}{x(1+x^{-1})}##.

If we assume ##x>0## then this is just ##\frac{\sqrt{1+x^{-2}}}{1+x^{-1}}## and so the limit to positive infinity is clearly +1.

If we assume ##x<0## then ##|x|=-x## and so we obtain ##\frac{-\sqrt{1+x^{-2}}}{1+x^{-1}}##. The limit to negative infinity is -1.
 

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