Understanding Motional EMF: Why Can We Use the Formula for a Spinning Bar?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the motional electromotive force (emf) formula, specifically ##\mathcal{E} = -Blv##, in the context of a spinning bar within a magnetic field. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of this formula and its applicability to scenarios involving motion in magnetic fields, including the integration of segments of the bar to calculate induced emf.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the applicability of the formula for a spinning bar, suggesting it is typically used for a bar moving across a circuit.
  • Another participant asserts that the formula applies to a bar moving in a magnetic field, independent of a circuit.
  • A participant explains that emf is related to the rate of change of magnetic flux, indicating that the change in area due to the bar's velocity leads to the use of the formula.
  • There is a clarification that the formula gives the emf produced by the rod when it moves perpendicular to the magnetic field.
  • One participant raises two questions: whether connecting wires to the ends of the bar would turn on a light bulb and whether the formula should include a sine term for the angle between the field and velocity.
  • Responses indicate that the effectiveness of connecting wires depends on the geometry of the setup and that the sine term may be necessary depending on the orientation of the velocity relative to the magnetic field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the motional emf formula to the spinning bar scenario, with some agreeing on its general applicability while others emphasize conditions related to geometry and orientation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the formula's application.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definition of emf is contingent on the geometry of the connectors and the nature of the magnetic field, which may affect the induced emf. There is also a discussion about the conditions under which the formula applies, particularly regarding the angle between the velocity and the magnetic field.

darksyesider
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I was reading this: http://web.mit.edu/8.02t/www/materials/StudyGuide/guide10.pdf
(specifically page 10-6), and came across the formula;
## \mathcal{E} = -Blv##
which is used for motional emf.

Next, I was trying to solve a problem on page 10-33 (bottom problem)
with a spinning bar. They broke up the bar into segments (dr) and used that formula and integrated to find the induced emf.

I don't get why you can use that formula though in this problem's case, because isn't it only for a bar moving across a circuit?

I guess I'm lacking in the theory; can someone explain why we can use it?
 
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It is for a bar moving in a magnetic field. No need for a circuit to have an emf.
 
Emf is the rate of change of flux with respect to time. When you have a bar (or a circuit) in your hand, and you give it a velocity v directed into a magnetic field what you have is

##\frac{\Delta \phi}{\Delta t} = \frac{\Delta (B\cdot A)}{\Delta t}## and if B is constant, then the only Chang in flux is due to the change in area, and the change in area is due to the velocity granting the equation you have.

B is constant and delta a is l times delta width/delta t and delta width is the velocity
 
So does #\mathca{E} = -Blv# give the emf produced by the rod moving?
 
By the rod moving in a magnetic field when the velocity is perpendicular to the field.
To be more precise.
 
Two things:

1] Physically, does this mean that if we attach wires to the ends of the bar and to a light bulb while it is moving, the light bulb will turn on?
2] Is the correct version ##-Blv\sin\theta## where ##\theta## is the angle between the field and velocity?
 
1. It depends on the geometry of the connectors. The emf is only well-defined on closed loops, and it is proportional to the time derivative of the flux through the loop. So how you connect the wires will affect how the flux changes.

2. Again it depends on the geometry, but your basic trig will give you the net flux if the surface normal vector enclosed by the wire loop is not parallel the magnetic field. So in short, yes.
 

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