Understanding Others: Reasons, Relationships & Discipline

[Drakkith]

I believe myself to be one of the most open minded people that I know. I have a general interest in understanding WHY people do the things they do and I believe that everyone has a legitimate reason for doing everything they do.(Whether or not someone else agrees with that reason, which is another subject entirely)

Unfortunently, I know of almost no one else that is like me. I can try to explain to any of my friends WHY someone has done something, but I almost always get something like "Well, they are stupid" or some other nonsense. This is especially true in relationships. I guess it just suprises me that so few people actually think about WHY their significant other did something and how it relates to them. That or they simply refuse to believe that those reasons are relevant.

Even here in the Air Force I come across it a lot as well. Superiors that discipline their subordinates without ever truly understanding why they did whatever they did. Not black and white things like wearing your uniform correctly, but usually about decisions they made that weren't truly wrong if you look at the situation.

It all just bugs the hell out of me i guess. Anyone got any suggestions in dealing with people like this? Or any comments?

 

[DanP]

I believe myself to be one of the most open minded people that I know. I have a general interest in understanding WHY people do the things they do and I believe that everyone has a legitimate reason for doing everything they do.(Whether or not someone else agrees with that reason, which is another subject entirely)

Unfortunently, I know of almost no one else that is like me. I can try to explain to any of my friends WHY someone has done something, but I almost always get something like "Well, they are stupid" or some other nonsense. This is especially true in relationships. I guess it just suprises me that so few people actually think about WHY their significant other did something and how it relates to them. That or they simply refuse to believe that those reasons are relevant.

Even here in the Air Force I come across it a lot as well. Superiors that discipline their subordinates without ever truly understanding why they did whatever they did. Not black and white things like wearing your uniform correctly, but usually about decisions they made that weren't truly wrong if you look at the situation.

It all just bugs the hell out of me i guess. Anyone got any suggestions in dealing with people like this? Or any comments?

Go with the flow. It doesn't worth obsessing on whys , because you won't change anyone.
Learn to navigate and circumvent.

Understanding some social psychology and in particular social cognition and some evolutionary psychology will give you some answers on why people act the way they do in their social relations, but then again, knowing why won't necessarily solve your frustrations with the way others act, and certainly won't change others.

 

[Drakkith]

Go with the flow. It doesn't worth obsessing on whys , because you won't change anyone.
Learn to navigate and circumvent.

Understanding some social psychology and in particular social cognition and some evolutionary psychology will give you some answers on why people act the way they do in their social relations, but then again, knowing why won't necessarily solve your frustrations with the way others act, and certainly won't change others.

I understand why people act the way they do in general, but what really gets me is that so few people can look at things from a different perspective, even when I can present them with a logical reason or something like that. Other than going with the flow or ignoring them, does anyone have a different way I could go about things to get them to see things a little differently? I'm not expecting any, I just thought I'd ask. You never know right?

 

[DanP]

I understand why people act the way they do in general, but what really gets me is that so few people can look at things from a different perspective, even when I can present them with a logical reason or something like that.

Why should anyone embrace "your perspective" ?

Other than going with the flow or ignoring them, does anyone have a different way I could go about things to get them to see things a little differently? I'm not expecting any, I just thought I'd ask. You never know right?

Not really. Social cognition doesn't work analytically, deeply rational. It's impossible due to the complexity of the problem. Daily you are faced with god know what order of magnitude of social cues arising form social interaction. What's worst, you are seldom yourself aware of the real situation a 3rd part is, or about it's motivations. We always think we do know, that we seen it better, that we know the situation, but the reality is that most of the time we don't. It;s just another self serving bias , a cognitive error. In fact, we lack a lot of data.

This is why heuristics serve so well humans. It allows one to navigate the incredibly complex social world with ease and grace, and it protects us.

Scientific thinking is great, but it simply can't be applied to day to day social life. It would give much more accurate results, but is impracticable due to the diversity and number of interactions. You can't allocate the required time slice to analytically gather data about each of those problems and interpret it rationally, scientifically. You don't have the luxury to doit.

And abother thing: trying to change ppl all the time or to make them see the things they way you do ( and you are self serving a lot of time, we are all ) will only make you obnoxious and will impair your social interactions. Save this for the cases when something is really objectively important to you.

 

[Drakkith]

Why should anyone embrace "your perspective" ?

It's not mine, it's someone elses that I'm trying to get them to see.

As for why, well, that's another issue entirely that I don't even want to start to get into.

 

[DanP]

It's not mine, it's someone elses that I'm trying to get them to see.

Maybe they already do and you aint aware of it. Ppl change perspectives and attitudes sometimes. What bothers you is that they don't share what you think is the "correct" perspective and attitude. Let it go.

 

[nucleargirl]

I hate my boss! he doesn't even try to understand me or why I do things I do, and that is a really bad quality in a manager of people. he does a rubbish job as a result.
I've tried to understand why he is being like that, and I've figured out either A: he's intimidated by me (my coworkers are no-hopers (sounds bad but true) and today he told me I was not paid to change things (meaning not paid to think)) suggesting my thinking/changing things could undermine him. or B: he just doesn't like me for some reason, I don't know what, I've tried to treat him and everyone else the same, and no body else has any problems with me except him. or C: he is an insincere git who does not know how to talk to people unless he is acting.

anyway, yeah I get what you are saying. I think everyone is reasonable, and if you can see where they are coming from then you can see why they do what they do, it will make sense to you too cos you are all reasonable - my meaning you will act in a similar way given the same conditions.

 

[HeLiXe]

I understand why people act the way they do in general, but what really gets me is that so few people can look at things from a different perspective, even when I can present them with a logical reason or something like that. Other than going with the flow or ignoring them, does anyone have a different way I could go about things to get them to see things a little differently? I'm not expecting any, I just thought I'd ask. You never know right?

It has been my experience that this can be very difficult, many ppl do not care to see more than what they are seeing and experiencing already and sometimes when you try to show them something in a different light, it can give them an added amount of stress or anxiety so they either brush you off, joke it off, or ignore you---unless it is something they feel it is important or something that interests them, so a good point would be to know where their interests are and relate it to that. Otherwise it is highly advisable to understand your cognition and perspective and appreciate those of others without trying to influence them because it can really be a headache and lead to problems.

 

[wasteofo2]

Yeah if someone doesn't care about the reason why, then maybe you should look at WHY that is.

If a superior in the military disciplines someone for something that wasn't totally ''wrong'' it's likely just to keep his position of authority intact.

If someone feels wronged by a significant other, the emotional pain won't go away by understanding that person's motivations.

Understanding people isn't about changing them, but rather learning how to act around them to best do whatever it is that you want to do.

 

[DaveC426913]

Drakkith, sometimes why someone did something is not an excuse.

You might try to demonstrate why someone stole $50 from a charity jar because their kids have no Christmas presents.

But does that make it OK? Why do we have to listen to their story? Some things in life are simply a matter of "don't make your problem my problem". Sure, you'll be punished. And then you may learn to not do it again.

Seeing someone's viewpoint is often an attempt to rationalize their behaviour so it's not as bad. Why is it not as bad?

Question: Who are you apologizing for?

 

[Evo]

Watching the show on the Holocaust on National Geographic right now.

Eishyshok.

German's stripped them naked, men, women, children and shot them all individually. Many didn't die from the gunshot and were buried alive.

 

[DaveC426913]

Watching the show on the Holocaust on National Geographic right now.

Eishyshok.

German's stripped them naked, men, women, children and shot them all individually. Many didn't die from the gunshot and were buried alive.

Ooooookaaaaaaaay. This is not the PFRT thread, but...

I think that, if I cannot empathize with these Germans, I'll still be able to sleep at night.

 

[chiro]

I believe myself to be one of the most open minded people that I know. I have a general interest in understanding WHY people do the things they do and I believe that everyone has a legitimate reason for doing everything they do.(Whether or not someone else agrees with that reason, which is another subject entirely)

Unfortunently, I know of almost no one else that is like me. I can try to explain to any of my friends WHY someone has done something, but I almost always get something like "Well, they are stupid" or some other nonsense. This is especially true in relationships. I guess it just suprises me that so few people actually think about WHY their significant other did something and how it relates to them. That or they simply refuse to believe that those reasons are relevant.

Even here in the Air Force I come across it a lot as well. Superiors that discipline their subordinates without ever truly understanding why they did whatever they did. Not black and white things like wearing your uniform correctly, but usually about decisions they made that weren't truly wrong if you look at the situation.

Hey Drakkith.

You sound like a philosopher and/or psychologist at least in terms of your personality.

It seems what you're describing is basically empathy, relating to people and trying to gain perspective for what they do.

Many people in a variety of careers rely on this to do their job apart from the psychologists. Management science has a lot of study and theory devoted to this, and people like counsellors and social workers have to have some kind of insight to help people get off drugs, stop the cycle of going to jail, and other things.

This is just an opinion, but I guess most people don't have the patience or the motivation to empathize or understand other people if they don't have a need to do it.

A few notes about the German example:

There have been experiments done (I'm pretty sure it was at Stanford) that basically gave people with pretty standard psychological profiles (ie not psychopaths, sociopaths etc) and asked them to shock people with an electrical device.

The funny (or not so funny) thing was, that when normal people were asked under some authority to do something that was known to be devoid of ethical or moral substance, that the majority of people just went along with it and did it even under the impression that the subject they were (allegedly) torturing was in great pain.

I am hazy on the details but I think it was the Stanford Prison experiment.

So yeah from that experiment, I guess one little nugget is that seemingly ordinary people are capable of atrocities like the army in Germany under Hitler of which many "otherwise ordinary people" were capable (and showed it) of acts that you would normally attribute to someone with a more disturbed profile like a psychopath.

 

[Math Is Hard]

A few notes about the German example:

There have been experiments done (I'm pretty sure it was at Stanford) that basically gave people with pretty standard psychological profiles (ie not psychopaths, sociopaths etc) and asked them to shock people with an electrical device.

The funny (or not so funny) thing was, that when normal people were asked under some authority to do something that was known to be devoid of ethical or moral substance, that the majority of people just went along with it and did it even under the impression that the subject they were (allegedly) torturing was in great pain.

I am hazy on the details but I think it was the Stanford Prison experiment.

You're thinking of "The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures". This originated at Yale.

 

[DanP]

You're thinking of "The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures". This originated at Yale.

Yeah, Milgram's originated at Yale. Stanford Prison Experiment was Zimbardo's brainchild. Two lesser devils, those guys :P

Btw, all check out Zimbardo: The Movie

 

[Radrook]

I understand why people act the way they do in general, but what really gets me is that so few people can look at things from a different perspective, even when I can present them with a logical reason or something like that. Other than going with the flow or ignoring them, does anyone have a different way I could go about things to get them to see things a little differently? I'm not expecting any, I just thought I'd ask. You never know right?

People use reason to justify behavior in the service of emotions engendered by needs.