Understanding Proper Subsets: An Explanation of the Empty Set in Set Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of proper subsets in set theory, particularly focusing on the empty set and its relationship with other sets. Participants explore definitions, examples, and implications of subsets and proper subsets, including the notation used in set representation.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the definition of a proper subset and the notation used, specifically questioning why ∅ ⊆ C is correct in the context of C = {∅, {∅}}.
  • Another participant provides a link to a detailed proof asserting that the empty set is a subset of every set.
  • A participant clarifies that a proper subset means A is a subset of B and A is not equal to B, and explains why the empty set is always a subset of any set.
  • There is a discussion about the notation, with one participant asking about the meaning of "extra brackets" and how to express the relationship of the empty set within another set.
  • Another participant confirms that ∅ is indeed a subset of any set, stating that this is a tautology.
  • Clarification is provided that {∅} is not empty, as it contains one element (the empty set), and that C contains two elements: the empty set and the set containing the empty set.
  • A participant poses a new question about whether A = {4, {5}, 6} is a proper subset of B = {{5}, 6, 7}, indicating ongoing exploration of subset relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of the empty set as a subset of any set, but there is some confusion regarding notation and the implications of subsets versus proper subsets. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific example of A and B as proper subsets.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the clarity of notation and the definitions of subsets, as well as the specific conditions under which sets are considered proper subsets.

bonfire09
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Ok I am a bit confused here. According to the definition of a proper subset means that everything in set A is in set b and a set always contains an extra pair of brackets. But in this example
C={∅,{∅}} why is this correct ∅ ⊆C instead of {∅} ⊆C for the first object?
 
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I'm a bit confused as to what you're asking. What do you mean extra brackets? A proper subset just means that if A is a proper subset of B, A is a subset of B and A =/= B.

If you're just asking why the empty set is always a subset, just look at what it would mean if it weren't. If the empty set weren't a subset of A, then that would mean the empty set contains some element that is not in A. But, that's impossible because the empty set has no elements.

Steve - right click the number and copy the link address, or just look at the format here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=4048220&postcount=5
 
im asking is that if i say that ∅⊆C is this correct?
 
Sure is.

Feel free to read that symbol as "Is a subset of OR is equal to." Since the empty set is a subset of anything, that statement is true and tautologous for any arbitrary C.
 
does this mean that what i said means that it points to the first empty set element within the set C?
 
What?
 
how would i say that the first empty set in set C is a subset of C?
 
  • #10
With what you just wrote.

∅ is the empty set.
{∅} is.. "the set of the empty set."
 
  • #11
oh ok. I was just a bit confused since you usually you put brackets around something when your saying that a set is a subset of another set such as this-

C={4,5,6) D={1,2,3,4,5,6}

{4,5,6}⊆{1,2,3,4,5,6}

But with the empty set I assume don't need to put brackets around it unless its a set within another set
 
  • #12
Specifically, {∅} is NOT empty- it contains one element, the empty set. The set you give, C= {∅,{∅}} contains two elements, the empty set and the set whose only member is the empty set. Here it is perfectly correct to say that ∅[itex]\subset[/itex] C (the empty set is a subset of any set, as you say), {∅}[itex]\subset[/itex] C because ∅ is a member of C, and {{∅}}[itex]\subset[/itex] C because {∅} is a member of C.;
 
  • #13
oh ok i get it but how about this one A={4,{5},6} and B={{5},6,7}. would A be a proper subset of B?
 

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