Understanding Simple Gravity Pendulum - Urgent Help Needed

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the dynamics of a simple gravity pendulum, particularly the derivation of its formulas and the relationship between forces acting on the pendulum. The original poster expresses confusion regarding the forces involved when the pendulum is displaced from its equilibrium position and the implications of various angles on these forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to clarify the relationship between the forces acting on the pendulum and the angles involved, questioning why certain force components are not equal and how they relate to harmonic motion. They also explore the implications of small angle approximations and the nature of acceleration in this context.

Discussion Status

Participants have provided some guidance, suggesting the use of free body diagrams to visualize the forces at play. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of increasing angles and the behavior of forces as the pendulum moves, with no explicit consensus reached on the original poster's questions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the angle of displacement affects the tension and forces acting on the pendulum, and there are discussions about the assumptions made regarding angles and their effects on the pendulum's motion.

kajalove
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hi

I know about harmonic oscilation, but I'm having trouble understanding how we derived formulas for gravity pendulum. Please read on.



If a ball on a string ( string is attached to the ceiling ) is displaced from its equilibrium position by angle A1, then forces on this ball are force of string F[v] and F[g].

F[v1] ... component of F[v] parallel to F[g] and of opposite direction to F[g]

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/1854/nihaloje2.th.png

BTW - if picture doesn't show up then please look at the attached jpg file





1)

a)
Now why ( when angle A1 > 0 ) isn't the magnitude of F[v1] equal to F[g] --> F[v1] = -F[g]?


b)
I assume bigger the angle A, smaller is F[v1]. Why?
I assume it's because F[v] is constant no matter what the angle A is, but why is that?





2)
According to my book angles A and A1 are the same:

Code:
[B]F[net] = m * g * sin[A1]  =  m * g * sin[A][/B].

I'd imagine angle A being the same as angle A1 only if F[g] = F[v1]. Then direction of F[net] would be horizontal. But since that is not the case thus the two angles shouldn't be the same.





3)
I will quote my book:

Distance of a ball from equilibrium state can be stated with

Code:
[B]L = A1 * d = A * d [/B]
, where L is arc of a circle. When at angle A, the net force on the ball is F = m * g * sin[A], which gives the ball acceleration
Code:
[B]a = - g * sin[A][/B]

Acceleration vector a certainly isn't linear with L = A * d, and thus the osciliation isn't harmonic. But it becomes harmonic, if angle A is small enough for us to replace sin[A] with A




a)
a certainly isn't linear with L = A * d
I assume by that they mean to say that when arc L is twice as great, a isn't twice as great.
But what has that got to do with harmonic osiclation? Is with harmonic oscillation a linear with L?
Can you show me some proof of that?





b)
But it becomes harmonic, if angle A1 is small enough for us to replace sin[A1] with A1
First of all, I'm not sure that sin[A1] and A1 are ever roughly the same size, since no matter how small A1 is, sin[A1] will always be 100 or more times smaller. Right?




c)
Second, even if sin[A1] and A1 have about the same value when A1 is small enough, what is the purpose of replacing sin[A1] with A1? Why do we want to do that?





d)
Also, why is acceleration vector a negative?
I realize that when a has opposite direction to ball's velocity that it has to be negative. But sometimes ball's velocity and acceleration vectors have same direction and thus a should be positive?



cheers
 

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Most of your questions can be answered by drawing a free body diagram. For question (a) consider what would happen if Fv1 = -Fg?
 
Hootenanny said:
Most of your questions can be answered by drawing a free body diagram. For question (a) consider what would happen if Fv1 = -Fg?

Ball would start moving in a horizontal direction. I realize that and I know this is not the case, but why doesn't it happen?!
 
Um if your angle keeps increasing it eventually reaches 90, so it keeps getting smaller and when it reaches 90 it goes to zero and tension is only determined in x direction since your tension component is basically Tension*cos(theta). I hope that answered the angle part of your problem
 

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