Understanding Simple Gravity Pendulum - Urgent Help Needed

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the mechanics of a simple gravity pendulum, specifically the derivation of formulas related to harmonic oscillation. Key points include the relationship between the angle of displacement (A1) and the forces acting on the pendulum, including gravitational force (F[g]) and tension (F[v]). The conversation highlights that for small angles, the approximation sin[A1] ≈ A1 allows the system to behave harmonically, while larger angles complicate this relationship. Additionally, the importance of free body diagrams in visualizing these forces is emphasized.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of harmonic oscillation principles
  • Familiarity with free body diagrams
  • Basic knowledge of trigonometric functions, particularly sine
  • Concept of gravitational force and tension in pendulum systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the pendulum formula in detail
  • Learn about the conditions for harmonic motion in pendulums
  • Explore the effects of varying angles on pendulum dynamics
  • Investigate the role of free body diagrams in analyzing forces in oscillatory systems
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Students of physics, educators teaching mechanics, and anyone interested in understanding the dynamics of pendulum motion and harmonic oscillation.

kajalove
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hi

I know about harmonic oscilation, but I'm having trouble understanding how we derived formulas for gravity pendulum. Please read on.



If a ball on a string ( string is attached to the ceiling ) is displaced from its equilibrium position by angle A1, then forces on this ball are force of string F[v] and F[g].

F[v1] ... component of F[v] parallel to F[g] and of opposite direction to F[g]

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/1854/nihaloje2.th.png

BTW - if picture doesn't show up then please look at the attached jpg file





1)

a)
Now why ( when angle A1 > 0 ) isn't the magnitude of F[v1] equal to F[g] --> F[v1] = -F[g]?


b)
I assume bigger the angle A, smaller is F[v1]. Why?
I assume it's because F[v] is constant no matter what the angle A is, but why is that?





2)
According to my book angles A and A1 are the same:

Code:
[B]F[net] = m * g * sin[A1]  =  m * g * sin[A][/B].

I'd imagine angle A being the same as angle A1 only if F[g] = F[v1]. Then direction of F[net] would be horizontal. But since that is not the case thus the two angles shouldn't be the same.





3)
I will quote my book:

Distance of a ball from equilibrium state can be stated with

Code:
[B]L = A1 * d = A * d [/B]
, where L is arc of a circle. When at angle A, the net force on the ball is F = m * g * sin[A], which gives the ball acceleration
Code:
[B]a = - g * sin[A][/B]

Acceleration vector a certainly isn't linear with L = A * d, and thus the osciliation isn't harmonic. But it becomes harmonic, if angle A is small enough for us to replace sin[A] with A




a)
a certainly isn't linear with L = A * d
I assume by that they mean to say that when arc L is twice as great, a isn't twice as great.
But what has that got to do with harmonic osiclation? Is with harmonic oscillation a linear with L?
Can you show me some proof of that?





b)
But it becomes harmonic, if angle A1 is small enough for us to replace sin[A1] with A1
First of all, I'm not sure that sin[A1] and A1 are ever roughly the same size, since no matter how small A1 is, sin[A1] will always be 100 or more times smaller. Right?




c)
Second, even if sin[A1] and A1 have about the same value when A1 is small enough, what is the purpose of replacing sin[A1] with A1? Why do we want to do that?





d)
Also, why is acceleration vector a negative?
I realize that when a has opposite direction to ball's velocity that it has to be negative. But sometimes ball's velocity and acceleration vectors have same direction and thus a should be positive?



cheers
 

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Most of your questions can be answered by drawing a free body diagram. For question (a) consider what would happen if Fv1 = -Fg?
 
Hootenanny said:
Most of your questions can be answered by drawing a free body diagram. For question (a) consider what would happen if Fv1 = -Fg?

Ball would start moving in a horizontal direction. I realize that and I know this is not the case, but why doesn't it happen?!
 
Um if your angle keeps increasing it eventually reaches 90, so it keeps getting smaller and when it reaches 90 it goes to zero and tension is only determined in x direction since your tension component is basically Tension*cos(theta). I hope that answered the angle part of your problem
 

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