Understanding the Carnot cycle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Carnot cycle, specifically focusing on the latter stages of the cycle, including the isothermal compression and adiabatic compression processes. Participants seek clarification on the purpose and mechanics of these steps, as well as their implications for the efficiency of the cycle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the Carnot cycle in detail but expresses confusion about the necessity and function of steps 4 and 5, particularly regarding gas compression and the role of the lower-temperature reservoir.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the cycle must return to its initial state to allow for the efficiency of a continuously running machine to be determined.
  • A later reply reiterates the need for the cycle to complete and questions why the gas temperature must be lowered to restart the cycle.
  • Another participant notes that the description pertains to a typical steam piston machine and clarifies that while the Carnot cycle phases are not perfectly aligned with this design, the process of pushing gas out during compression aligns with the isothermal compression stage.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the Carnot cycle, particularly about the necessity of compression and the implications of temperature changes. There is no consensus on the specific reasons for these processes, and multiple viewpoints are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the Carnot cycle and its application to steam piston machines, indicating that the phases may not be perfectly clear-cut. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the definitions and implications of terms such as "compression" in this context.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals seeking a deeper understanding of thermodynamic cycles, particularly the Carnot cycle, and those interested in the mechanics of steam piston machines.

Mr Davis 97
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My textbook explains the Carnot cycle as follows:

1. Heat is added to the boiler, where the steam inside expands isothermally at high temperature (T(High))w(both valves closed).
2. The intake valve is opened (exhaust valve closed) and the steam expands adiabatically. The expanding steam does work by pushing the piston out.
3. As a result of the expansion, the gas cools to the lower temperature (T(Low)).
4. The exhaust valve opens (intake valve closed). The piston compresses the cool gas and pushes it out to the exhaust (isothermal compression). The condenser removes heat from the steam to the air outside, and steam condenses to lower-temperature liquid.
5. A pump moves water to the boiler (adiabatic compression).

I understand step 1, 2, and 3; however, step 4 and 5 I don't grasp. I know that The first steps entail expanding a gas while keeping it at the same temperature, opening the intake valve in order to use the expanding gas to move a piston and do work, and I understand that, according to the first law of thermodynamics, the internal energy of the gas decreases as a result of this work. However, what is the point of step 4 and 5? Why does the gas need to be compressed? Why can't it just go back to the boiler as is? In addition to answering, could someone, in plain language, explain what steps 4 and 5 are for? For example, I am confused about the point that step 4 says that the gas is already cool because it lost energy from doing work. If so, then why is there a lower-temperature reservoir at all. Also, what does "compress" mean in the contexts of step 4 and 5? What is the purpose of this "compression?"
 
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The cycle needs to end up where it started so that a second identical cycle can begin. Unless the process ends up where it started (completes the cycle), there is no way to know what the efficiency of a continuously running machine is.
 
FactChecker said:
The cycle needs to end up where it started so that a second identical cycle can begin. Unless the process ends up where it started (completes the cycle), there is no way to know what the efficiency of a continuously running machine is.

Why does the temperature of the gas need to be lowered in order to restart the cycle?
 
It is describing a typical steam piston machine and indicating how the phases of the Carnot cycle match up. The machine doesn't have to be designed this way, but this is one machine design. The matching parts of the Carnot cycle are not perfect or clear cut. Clearly, the piston must return to the top and push the gas out the exhaust. Because the volume is decreasing during this, and the gas is being pushed out, all at the lower temperature, this matches the isothermal compression stage of the Carnot cycle. The steam could just be exhausted to the atmosphere rather than being condensed and returned to the tank.
 

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