Understanding the Computation of Double Integrals: Can You Help?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of a double integral involving a function of the difference between two variables, t_1 and t_2. Participants explore methods to express the double integral in terms of a single integral, while addressing the transformation of variables and the geometric interpretation of the integration region.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests help with a specific integral and expresses gratitude for assistance.
  • Another participant explains the integral's computation, questioning whether c is a constant or a function of t_1 - t_2, and suggests a transformation to single-variable functions using τ and σ.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on the geometric interpretation of the integration region in the τ, σ plane, questioning the choice of σ = t_1 + t_2 and the assertion that the region is a rectangle with diagonals parallel to the axes.
  • Further clarification is requested regarding the orthogonality of the coordinate system defined by τ and σ, and the reasoning behind the chosen transformations.
  • Participants share their own solutions and approaches, indicating variations in methodology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and clarity regarding the transformation of variables and the geometric interpretation of the integration region. There is no consensus on the best approach to the problem, and multiple viewpoints are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about specific phrases and concepts, such as the nature of the integration region and the choice of transformation variables. There are unresolved questions about the appropriateness of the proposed methods and the implications of the transformations.

inviziblesoul
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Can anybody please help me understand the computation of the integral in the attached image. I shall be grateful.
 

Attachments

  • Problem.jpg
    Problem.jpg
    18.5 KB · Views: 430
Physics news on Phys.org
What exactly is the integral you are asking about? The integral on the left is simple, just the integral of [itex]c(t_1- t_2)[/itex] over the square [itex]-T\le t_1\le T[/itex] and [itex]-T\le t_2\le T[/itex]. Is c a constant or a function of [itex]t_1- t_2[/itex]? If a function, then what function?

Perhaps you are trying to convert the function [itex]c(t_1- t_2)[/itex] to a function of a single variable by defining [itex]\tau= t_1- t_2[/itex]? The region is still two dimensional and even though c can be set as a function of one variable, you will need another variable, say [itex]\sigma= t_1+ t_2[/itex]. Then [itex]t_1= (\tau+ \sigma)/2[/itex] and [itex]t_2= (\sigma- \tau)/2[/itex] so that the boundaries of the square become [itex]t_1= (\tau+ \sigma)/2= T[/itex] so [itex]\tau+ \sigma= 2T[/itex], [itex]t_1= (\tau+ \sigma)/2= -T[/itex] so [itex]\tau+ \sigma= -2T[/itex], [itex]t_2= (-\tau+ \sigma)/2= T[/itex] so [itex]-\tau+ \sigma= 2T[/itex], and [itex]t_1= (-\tau+ \sigma)/2= -T[/itex] so [itex]\tau- \sigma= 2T[/itex].

That is a rectangle in the [itex]\tau[/itex], [itex]\sigma[/itex] plane with its digonals parallel to the axes. Overall, [itex]\tau[/itex] goes from -2T to 2T but because the upper and lower boundaries change formula at [itex]\tau= 0[/itex] you should do it as two separate integrals. For [itex]\tau= -2T[/itex] to [itex]\tau= 0[/itex], the lower boundary is [itex]\tau+ \sigma= 2T[/itex] or [itex]\sigma= 2T- \tau[/itex] and the upper boundary is [itex]-\sigma+ \tau= 2T[/itex] or [itex]\sigma= \tau- 2T[/itex]. For [itex]\tau= 0[/itex] to [itex]\tau= 2T[/itex], the lower boundary is [itex]=-\sigma+ \tau= -2T[/itex] or [itex]\sigma= -\tau- 2T[/itex] and the upper boundary is [itex]sigma+ \tau= 2T[/itex] or [itex]\sigma= -\tau+ 2T[/itex].

So the integral can be written
[tex]\int_{-2T}^0\int_{2T-\tau}^{\tau+ 2T} c(\tau)d\sigma d\tau+ \int_0^{2T}\int_{-\tau- 2T}^{\tau- 2T} c(\tau) d\sigma d\tau[/tex]
 
Thank you very much for your excellent efforts and this great explanation. However, I am not clear at certain points.

You have rightly pointed out: the aim here is to express the double integral in terms of a single integral. Furthermore, C is a function of the difference [itex]\tau=t_1−t_2[/itex].

I did not understand your phrase <<That is a rectangle in the τ, σ plane with its digonals parallel to the axes.>> How do you know that its a rectangle and its diagonals are parallel to the axes (the [itex]\tau, \sigma[/itex] axes ?).
and how did you choose [itex]\sigma = t_1 + t_2?[/itex] why not some other function?
I will greatly appreciate if you can kindly refer me some reading on this topic.

I have attached my solution as well. I have not introduced a new variable, however, I have used [itex]\tau[/itex] and [itex]t_1[/itex].

Thank you for your time.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
inviziblesoul said:
Thank you very much for your excellent efforts and this great explanation. However, I am not clear at certain points.

You have rightly pointed out: the aim here is to express the double integral in terms of a single integral. Furthermore, C is a function of the difference [itex]\tau=t_1−t_2[/itex].

I did not understand your phrase <<That is a rectangle in the τ, σ plane with its digonals parallel to the axes.>> How do you know that its a rectangle and its diagonals are parallel to the axes (the [itex]\tau, \sigma[/itex] axes ?).
The "coordinate axes" in a [itex]\tau[/itex], [itex]\sigma[/itex] coordinate system are the lines [itex]\tau= 0[/itex] and [itex]\sigma= 0[/itex] which mean [itex]t_1- t_2= 0[/itex] and lines parallel to that.

and how did you choose [itex]\sigma = t_1 + t_2?[/itex] why not some other function?
I will greatly appreciate if you can kindly refer me some reading on this topic.
The lines [itex]\tau= t_1+ t_2= constant[/itex] is the same as [itex]t_2= -t_1+ constant[/itex] have slope -1. The lines [itex]\sigma= t_1- t_2= constant[/itex] or [itex]t_2= t_1- constant[/itex] have slope 1. They are perpendicular so we still have an "orthogonal" coordinate system.

I have attached my solution as well. I have not introduced a new variable, however, I have used [itex]\tau[/itex] and [itex]t_1[/itex].

Thank you for your time.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K