Understanding the Concept of Phonons

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter pivoxa15
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Concept Phonons
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of phonons, exploring their nature, properties, and analogies to other wave phenomena such as sound waves and electromagnetic waves. Participants delve into the theoretical aspects of phonons in solids, including their representation and behavior in crystal lattices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that phonons can be thought of as waves that propagate similarly to sound, questioning how many atoms are represented by a single phonon and drawing parallels to photons.
  • Another participant proposes that phonons represent oscillations of particles in a solid, emphasizing the need for boundary conditions to prevent particle leakage.
  • A later reply introduces the distinction between acoustic and optical phonons, arguing that phonons encompass both types of vibrational modes, not just acoustic ones.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding optical phonons, which involve vibrations of positive and negative ions that can couple with electromagnetic radiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of phonons, particularly regarding their classification as acoustic or optical. There is no consensus on the best analogy for phonons, with some favoring sound wave comparisons while others highlight the complexity of phonon behavior in solids.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the behavior of phonons and their relationship to other wave phenomena, which may not be fully resolved. The implications of boundary conditions and the specific characteristics of optical phonons are also noted as areas requiring further exploration.

pivoxa15
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
1
How should I think about the concept of phonons?

As I understand it, it is a wave which propagates with a speed similar to sound and models the movement of atoms in crystals. However how many atoms per phonon? And isn't phonons meant to be analogous to photons which are single units hence one particle per phonon?

Or does the phonon is a wave traveling at a certain speed and frequency hence energy and all particles with that speed is represented by the phonon? Hence the solid is represented by phonons only. Which is usually less than the number of particles.

In this article they showed 6 waves with distinct k values. They represent 6 different phonons? Hence each phonon can be made up of many particles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonons
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
You may want to read this paper:

"Visualizing the phonon wave function", S.C. Johnson and T.D. Gutierrez, Am. J. Phys. v.70, p. 227 (2002).

Zz.
 
How about thinking phonons as sound waves? In sound, the particles oscillate forwards and backwards about some point. And a traveling wave represents the movement of the oscillations reaching further away from the initial point where the sound was generated. Although the particles are not necessary moving or migrating but are oscillating about a point. In other words, the moving wave reprsents the oscillations moving forwards and reaching more particles away from the initial point. To model it in a solid, one must install boundary conditions at the ends so that the wave disappear at the ends. Because we don't want the particles to 'leak' out of the solid. Each wave with a certain frequency or wavenumber is a certain phonon.
 
pivoxa15 said:
How about thinking phonons as sound waves? In sound, the particles oscillate forwards and backwards about some point. And a traveling wave represents the movement of the oscillations reaching further away from the initial point where the sound was generated. Although the particles are not necessary moving or migrating but are oscillating about a point. In other words, the moving wave reprsents the oscillations moving forwards and reaching more particles away from the initial point. To model it in a solid, one must install boundary conditions at the ends so that the wave disappear at the ends. Because we don't want the particles to 'leak' out of the solid. Each wave with a certain frequency or wavenumber is a certain phonon.

But this is not accurate either.

With phonons, you have BOTH acoustical (sound) and optical (light) branches. While phonon modes are sometime called "first sound" in older solid state texts, to think that these are only acoustic-active vibration would not be accurate.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
But this is not accurate either.

With phonons, you have BOTH acoustical (sound) and optical (light) branches. While phonon modes are sometime called "first sound" in older solid state texts, to think that these are only acoustic-active vibration would not be accurate.

Zz.

What do you mean by the optical (light branches)?

Do you mean thinking about the particles tied together via a string and the oscillations of the string like a transverse string tied together at two ends so more like an EM wave tied at two ends then a sound wave that disappear at the boundaries? Except the wave in this case is made up of particles.
 
Last edited:
Sort of got it...

Optic phonon vibrations are those modes of vibration which cause the positive ions to be some degree out of phase with negative ones. This causes an oscillating electric dipole - which as you'd expect, couples strongly to EM radiation. Thus optical branch phonons can both absorb and emit radiation.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
12K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
508
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
7K