Understanding the Conservation of Probability and Operators in Quantum Mechanics

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter paradoxymoron
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Introduction Operators
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of probability in quantum mechanics, specifically addressing the implications of finite limits on wave functions, the treatment of operators for classical dynamical variables, and the relationship between average position and average velocity. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical derivations, and interpretations of quantum mechanics concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the implications of finite limits on the normalization of probability density, suggesting that if limits are finite, the wave function may be zero at boundaries, as seen in cases like the infinite potential well.
  • Another participant clarifies that the coordinate ##x## is not a function of time, emphasizing that it is the wave function that depends on both position and time.
  • A participant points out that the assertion regarding the rate of change of average position being the average velocity is a definition used to interpret "velocity" in quantum mechanics.
  • There is a query about whether the Ehrenfest theorem guarantees this relationship between average position and velocity.
  • Another participant notes that the Ehrenfest theorem indicates that the expectation value follows classical equations of motion but does not directly relate to the interpretation of "velocity."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of average velocity in quantum mechanics and the implications of the Ehrenfest theorem. There is no consensus on the justification for the postulation regarding average velocity.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the mathematical derivations and the need for careful consideration of definitions and interpretations in quantum mechanics. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding and interpretation of foundational concepts.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in quantum mechanics, particularly those exploring the mathematical foundations and interpretations of probability, operators, and classical analogs in quantum systems.

paradoxymoron
Messages
21
Reaction score
1
First, I have a question regarding the conservation of probability. The book shows (quite elegantly) that

$$ \frac {d}{dt} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} |\Psi (x, t)|^2dx = \frac {i\hbar}{2m} \Big{(}\Psi ^* \frac{\partial \Psi}{\partial x} - \frac{\partial \Psi ^*}{\partial x} \Big{)} \Big |_{-\infty}^{\infty}$$

And it goes on to say that the derivative is zero, on the grounds that ##\Psi## approaches zero as ##x## approaches infinity. What if the limits were finite? Would the probability density still be normalizable for all ##t##?

We also recently started going over operators of classical dynamical variables. After stating the simple operator for position, the textbook goes on to derive an expression for the rate of change of the average position, i.e

##
\begin{align}
\frac{d \ \overline{x}}{dt}&=\frac{d}{dt} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} x|\Psi (x, t)|^2dx \\
&=\int_{-\infty}^{\infty} x\frac{\partial |\Psi |^2}{\partial t}dx
\end{align}
##

The rest of the derivation - which uses the above result, and then double use of integration by parts - is easy to follow.
However, I'm confused as to why, when taking the derivative under the equal sign, it doesn't affect the ##x## and use the product rule. Is ##x## not a function of time?

The book then "postulates" that the rate of change of the average position is the average velocity, without justification. How is that true?

One more question. How is it that any measurable quantity ##Q## can be written as a function of position and momentum ##p##, i.e ##Q=Q(x, p)##? Can this be proven?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
paradoxymoron said:
What if the limits were finite?

If the limits are finite, then your wave function is going to be identically zero at the boundaries (this occurs, e.g., for the infinite potential well).

paradoxymoron said:
Is x not a function of time?

No, ##x## is a coordinate and it does not depend on time. What depends on time is the wave function, which in turn depends on ##x## and ##t##. You can deduce the average position which does in general depend on time, but this is not the coordinate ##x##, but a statement of a property of the wave function.

paradoxymoron said:
The book then "postulates" that the rate of change of the average position is the average velocity, without justification. How is that true?
It is a definition here and a way of making sense of the term "velocity" at the quantum level.

In general, you should try to limit your questions to one question (or at least one concept) per thread. Posting several topics in one thread will only make your responses scattered among each other.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba
Orodruin said:
It is a definition here and a way of making sense of the term "velocity" at the quantum level.
Is it not already guaranteed by the Ehrenfest theorem?
 
The Ehrenfest theorem tells you that the expectation value should follow the classical equation of motion. It is unrelated to the interpretation of this to the "velocity".
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 59 ·
2
Replies
59
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
6K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K