Understanding the Mechanics of Gravity: How and Why It Works

[Dr.Brain]

My question was related to the ray of light bending towards BH. and hence I conclude that something is bending indeed. Or why and who did first made such a graph ? It seems that the actual cordinate system of space bends because space is made of nothing ( no ether) ?

A ray of light can be thought of something which carries energy.As per Einstein's Law Of Gravitation, anything carrying energy has mass , in a way, that the light is deflected under gravitational fields. That is, if a light ray passes near a massive object (like Sun), the light ray finds that the 'imaginary' spacetime fabric is distorted and now it cannot travel in straight line as it should have.

Remember that the spacetime fabric is just to make us understand "what fields do to other objects" ...Spacetime fabric concept is made by man..although nature does its own phenomena without ever knowing what the phenomena is called...Like a frog would never know it is called a frog ...got it?

 

[antigravitation]

I think our understanding of gravity is completely wrong !There is no doubt that we must search for another theory which involves at least quantum-mechanics !
We must know all interactions of all forces to each other to be able to explain and understand gravitation completely!A theory which would explain it really is the Heim-Theory !I will set a link to a site where you can read everything about it!Certainly a 80 site script you can find there too.Maybe i will open a new thread for this theory!
So i am new here i don't know exactly where i should post this theory !
But now here is the link :
http://www.heim-theory.com/Contents/contents.html

Have anybody ever heard here from the mass formula of heim ?

Greetings
Antigravitation

 

[Danger]

It seems that the actual cordinate system of space bends because space is made of nothing ( no ether) ?

I've come up with my own 'thought model' because the rubber sheet thing is pretty much 2 dimensional. If you think of a globe of the Earth, the shortest distance from one side to the other is a 'straight' line along the surface. If you consider it to be made of something like soft rubber, then a weight of some type would make a dent in the surface, which would deflect the course of another object that passes it on the way to the other side. The real shortest distance would be if you poke a stick through the thing.
Space-time is somewhat similar, although far more complex. What to us is a straight line is not the shortest distance between 2 points. The 'stick' through the fabric of space-time, which Einstein referred to as a 'geodesic', is the actual shortest path. That's one reason that some of us hold out hope for possibe 'faster-than-light' travel or communications, if we can somehow access the geodisics rather than be forever restricted to normal space. (This is a very scant hope, because it would appear that the energy requirements would be prohibitive.)
Something to keep in mind as well is that Newton's theory was not so much wrong as it was incomplete, just as Einstein's is in light of quantum mechanics. It still quite adequately expresses anything that you're likely to encounter in normal life, such as how long it will take a dropped bowling ball to land on your foot, or how much it will hurt when it gets there.

 

[antigravitation]

I've come up with my own 'thought model' because the rubber sheet thing is pretty much 2 dimensional. If you think of a globe of the Earth, the shortest distance from one side to the other is a 'straight' line along the surface. If you consider it to be made of something like soft rubber, then a weight of some type would make a dent in the surface, which would deflect the course of another object that passes it on the way to the other side. The real shortest distance would be if you poke a stick through the thing.
Space-time is somewhat similar, although far more complex. What to us is a straight line is not the shortest distance between 2 points. The 'stick' through the fabric of space-time, which Einstein referred to as a 'geodesic', is the actual shortest path. That's one reason that some of us hold out hope for possibe 'faster-than-light' travel or communications, if we can somehow access the geodisics rather than be forever restricted to normal space. (This is a very scant hope, because it would appear that the energy requirements would be prohibitive.)
Something to keep in mind as well is that Newton's theory was not so much wrong as it was incomplete, just as Einstein's is in light of quantum mechanics. It still quite adequately expresses anything that you're likely to encounter in normal life, such as how long it will take a dropped bowling ball to land on your foot, or how much it will hurt when it gets there.

You said that it is a very scant hope to manage to travell faster than light besause of the need of enormous energy !That is wrong because if we would find a way to interact with another force in the space-time and in a gravitational field it would be possible to do it with not so much energy !
But please read my previous post of the heim mass-theory !
greetings
antigravitation

 

[Anomalous]

... 1) As per Einstein's Law Of Gravitation, anything carrying energy has mass , in a way, ...

2) if a light ray passes near a massive object (like Sun), the light ray finds that the 'imaginary' spacetime fabric is distorted and now it cannot travel in straight line as it should have.

3) Remember that the spacetime fabric is just to make us understand "what fields do to other objects" ...Spacetime fabric concept is made by man..although nature does its own phenomena without ever knowing what the phenomena is called...Like a frog would never know it is called a frog ...got it?

1) If that is true then how come every body lied to me uptill now that light has no mass. Or r U taking me for a ride ?

2) So U don't agree that the ray light should regain its original green path of direction. BTW for that not to happen the space will have to be in kinda worm holes state but predictable stable ones.

3) So U don't agree that the natural cordinate system of space is changing ?
i.e. U don't agree that a 10 centimeter object can be actually longer in distorted space when compared to normal space ?

I am not a Frog. Frogs don't ask such questions.

 

[Anomalous]

I've come up with my own 'thought model' because the rubber sheet thing is pretty much 2 dimensional...

I think the three dimensional model picture is actually representing a slice of the black hole in two dimensions.

thats just my guess, I never read anything like that anywhere, so correct me !

 

[Dr.Brain]

1) If that is true then how come every body lied to me uptill now that light has no mass. Or r U taking me for a ride ?

2) So U don't agree that the ray light should regain its original green path of direction. BTW for that not to happen the space will have to be in kinda worm holes state but predictable stable ones.

3) So U don't agree that the natural cordinate system of space is changing ?
i.e. U don't agree that a 10 centimeter object can be actually longer in distorted space when compared to normal space ?

I am not a Frog. Frogs don't ask such questions.

1) I quoted whatever was told by Einstein. Trust me I have read it in a good book.( shall I quote the book?..)

2) Bending of light is just like refracton , in a sense , the object is not visible at its correct place.Go to a good site, learn more about bending of light around stars and black holes.You will get more knowledgeable. Or visit http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/distort1big_gif.html

3)Ofcourse when some object "dends" the spacetime curve , it forms a sort of dent , as a result the meaning of straight line chanches, that is, what used to be the shortest possible path to go from A to B , has no become a bit longer.That is Geometry is distorted.Please read my previous post clearly, about bending of spacetime fabric by sun . So the sun is a bulky mass, and it bends the curve quite dramatically such that our knowledge of staraight lines, shapes seems vague.Taking an example of black holes , the spacetime curves are so much distorted that 'spacetime distance' and 'time' reverse their roles and just as on Earth , we cannot avoid next monday , near black holes, we cannot avoid r---->0 . ...

Tell me if you have more doubts..

 

[antigravitation]

Why no one here reply to my post !
Please read the link which i posted in my first post !

 

[Anomalous]

Dr.Brain

http://www.geocities.com/anomalytransformer/Blackhole.GIF

Look at the green line, light should retrace its path according to the blacklines if its the space that is bending instead of light.

 

[Dr.Brain]

Ok don't confuse , it is not that only one of light/space bends, it is that light bends under the influence of distorted space.See the link I gave you, does the light retraces its path..?... the image shows that it does not, so this means that it is not only that the space bends but also that light also takes part in the whole process ... and this contribution of light is due to the energy it carries.

Another way, imagine it like this, once the light has bent, instead of returning to the same path, it starts traveling again in straight line but this time in another direction as compared to the direction it was traveling before.

Its all like a road, when you drive a vehicle , and you find that the road is curving ahead, you steer in the direction of the road curve ,once you have turned to the left/right, you continue again in straight line without retracing your original path.Now the vehicle which 'could' reach its destination in some time, takes more time...!

 

[antigravitation]

it is very poor that there is nobody who can reply to my posts :
i will repeat them :
I think our understanding of gravity is completely wrong !There is no doubt that we must search for another theory which involves at least quantum-mechanics !
We must know all interactions of all forces to each other to be able to explain and understand gravitation completely!A theory which would explain it really is the Heim-Theory !I will set a link to a site where you can read everything about it!Certainly a 80 site script you can find there too.Maybe i will open a new thread for this theory!
So i am new here i don't know exactly where i should post this theory !
But now here is the link :
http://www.heim-theory.com/Contents/contents.html

Have anybody ever heard here from the mass formula of heim ?

Greetings
Antigravitation

 

[Anomalous]

...

I think U should make your point in a separate thread, as U may be off topic here , hence ignored

 

[Dr.Brain]

it is very poor that there is nobody who can reply to my posts :
i will repeat them :
I think our understanding of gravity is completely wrong !There is no doubt that we must search for another theory which involves at least quantum-mechanics !
We must know all interactions of all forces to each other to be able to explain and understand gravitation completely!A theory which would explain it really is the Heim-Theory !I will set a link to a site where you can read everything about it!Certainly a 80 site script you can find there too.Maybe i will open a new thread for this theory!
So i am new here i don't know exactly where i should post this theory !
But now here is the link :
http://www.heim-theory.com/Contents/contents.html

Have anybody ever heard here from the mass formula of heim ?

Greetings
Antigravitation

Ok..as per your request, I have added the link to my fav. , I will read it and present my views.

 

[p53ud0 dr34m5]

antigravitation, the heim theory looks quite interesting. i love to look at new theories, because i have little faith in the current theories. unfortunately, the computer I am on does not have acrobat reader, so i am unable to view the files. the computer at my job = not cool. when i get home, ill take a look at your theory and post back on it. I am looking forward to it.

 

[Juan R.]

Nobody knows the detailed mechanism

In school we are taught that gravity is a force of attraction between two bodies. This is very vague, and it bothers me that a broader knowledge of gravity is not "common knowledge". Could someone please explain in deatail the mechanics of gravity, how and why it works?

"If an apple falls, does the moon also fall"
Isaac Newton

The theories of forces explain that there is a contribution to free motion and that contribution is "a force".

Exactly what is a force or how it act? Nobody know that. In fact, it would be very difficult to reduce the concept of force to some more fundamental.

There is an "attempt" to explain the concept of force in terms of field, and other more modern in terms of interchange of virtual particles. Both of those attempts are (contrary to usual beliefs) conceptually ineffective and experimentally restrictive.

Moreover, note that both are based in unobserved things.

1) The idea of a force is an interchange of virtual photons (QED) is valid like approximation and not explain really nothing (in fact one recover basically the same questions). There is the "same" mistery that with original Coulomb law

2) The idea of a force like a curvature of spacetime (GR) is also valid like approximation and not explain really nothing. There the "same" misterium that with original Newton law. How Earth know force caused by Sun is transformed to new mistery How Earth know curvature caused by Sun!

 

[tino lin]

"Matter tells the fabric how to curve, and curved fabric tells matter how to move"


I know gravity can also affect light but what is the explanation for gravity slowing down time also?

 

[Dusty]

Reality vs Math terms.

Ryan;
As Juan stated, science has not reduced the concepts of forces to a cause and effect set of fundamental paradigms. Once this is done, I'm sure all of us will get a simple and complete answer to your question and much more. We might want to start by not performing such a literal translation of the QM and GR mathematical terms into reality terms. Do we really believe that space (the void) warps or that real time reacts to motion? Dose anyone believe that there are dimensions beyond the three physical dimensions? If science continues to promote these mathematical terms as real phenomena, it may be quite some time before you get the answer your looking for.

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

Well referring to the modern physics, there r 4 forces in this universe...
The electromagnetic force, the weak force, the strong force and the gravitational force..

The electromagnetism explains the magnets attraction forces, the weak explains the neutrinos interactions and the beta decay in nuclear physics, the strong forces explains why a nucleus doesn't break a part...

Gravity in a curved space, explains why the earth, moon and sun orbit around themselves and around things bigger than they r...Noting an important fact that gravity is no longer a pulling force, no it's a pushing one, it's the space around the apple that pushed it to the ground not an invisible magnet in the heart of the Earth who did so...

Also we know know that light isn't just a wave, light has a particle nature too, and that's how it can be affected by a strong gravitational force, and the gravitational force working within the sun works as a reflecting lens that someitmes we r being decieved with the images we see for other galaxies...

 

[Physics101]

Gravity as I understand it

As far as I know, Gravity is a byproduct of interaction between Matter and Space-Time. The presence of Matter distorts Space-Time so that traditional Uclidean Geometry no longer holds -- i.e. straight line is no longer a straight line, but a bent one. Light follows Geodesic path, meaning that it follows a length-minimizing path in a distorted Space-Time.

QM suggests that there should be Graviton particle, much like Photon, that serves to explain the Gravity Field, but I believe this hasn't been verified (I could be wrong). As far as I'm concerned, these particles just as well be described as unit of energy confined to tiny Space-Time (measured in terms of Plancks constant).

Recent developments in String and Brane Theories suggested that Gravity might be something that leaks into our dimension from other higher dimensions. This is somewhat far-fetched, but it does address the concern that Gravity is so much weaker than other fundamental forces of nature.

My own take on Gravity, not that I'm qualified to theorize, is that it is caused by disruption of expanding Space-Time by presense of Matter. As many of you know, there's a recent development that suggests Dark-Energy responsible for repelling the Universe (i.e. Universe as we know it will expand forever inspite of Gravity). I believe that Matter is simply a form of energy confined in a Hyperspace that counteracts the expansive force of Dark-Energy. This disruption of Dark-Energy is perceived as Gravity in our 3 + Time-Space dimension we live in.

This is only my rendition of Gravity, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Gravitor]

Wouldn't it be interesting if matter weren't in spacetime, but rather, is spacetime?

True matter is space-time. Since all particles occupy space-time it's reasonable to believe they are one and the same.

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

1) If that is true then how come every body lied to me uptill now that light has no mass.

Of course light has a mass, haven't u heard of the photoelectric effect(which is why einstein have had his nobel prize) light can interact with matter, light has a mass represented in the form of the photons, photons are energy, and Einstein proved mathematically that at the speed of light mass and energy are the same because E=mc²...
And every object that has a mass can be influenced by gravity..

 

[Sam Mason]

Why does everybody think gravity to be a weaker force than the other four fundamentals? granted it cannot hold bodies with the same unquenchable grip as strong nuclear force but I've also never heard of electromagnatism defying the exclusion principle like gravity does in the collapse of a neutron star.

Off topic: does anyone have a clue where i can find out about current theories surrounding singularities and black holes here? I've just decided that singularitys must have either volume or infinite gravity and i want to see if this holds true with current beleif (or a current belief)

 

[Art]

Of course light has a mass, haven't u heard of the photoelectric effect(which is why einstein have had his nobel prize) light can interact with matter, light has a mass represented in the form of the photons, photons are energy, and Einstein proved mathematically that at the speed of light mass and energy are the same because E=mc²...
And every object that has a mass can be influenced by gravity..

Light has 0 mass. Gravity does not affect light directly, it affects the space-time dimensions that light is traveling through. When people refer to light bending in the presence of a massive object this is only a perceived effect. From the lights frame of reference it is traveling in a straight line.

 

[Art]

In school we are taught that gravity is a force of attraction between two bodies. This is very vague, and it bothers me that a broader knowledge of gravity is not "common knowledge". Could someone please explain in deatail the mechanics of gravity, how and why it works?

"If an apple falls, does the moon also fall"
Isaac Newton

The quick answer is according to quantum theory everything, both matter and forces are comprised of 2 families of particles Fermions and Bosons respectively this theory has been very successful so far in explaining matter and the other 3 forces - electromagnetism and the weak and strong nuclear forces. Forces affect matter by the interaction of boson particles. The particles related to gravity have been identified theoretically and given a name - gravitons, but to date physicists have been unable to detect them.

 

[Art]

Off topic: does anyone have a clue where i can find out about current theories surrounding singularities and black holes here? I've just decided that singularitys must have either volume or infinite gravity and i want to see if this holds true with current beleif (or a current belief)

here's a ref for you http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html

 

[Enos]

I'm too speculative and too far beyond physical review's current level of research, but I say that gravity and electromagnetism are the same force and the same strength. :)

 

[Sam Mason]

Hehehe good luck proving that one Enos :D

But bloody hell you have a good point we just don't have the means to produce strong enough magnets to replicate the gravitational effects of a body the size of a planet ...

And maybe if a proton was gravitationally charged in the same way its electromagnetically charged then it could hold something as small as an electron in check over something as small as the Planck constant ...

I like ur thinking dude :P just going to have a hard time proving it

(Ps thanks for the link Art ... i still havnt looked but itll probably be worthwhile )

 

[Enos]

I just hope I'm right. I'll know for sure in time.