Understanding the Relationship of Sphere Coordinates and Rotations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the coordinates of the center of a sphere and its orientations, specifically the Euler angles, while rolling on a fixed sphere. Participants explore the degrees of freedom (DOF) associated with this motion and the mathematical relationships governing it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, hossein, seeks to understand the relationship between the coordinates (X, Y, Z) of a sphere's center and its orientations (alpha, beta, gamma) while rolling on another sphere, noting that a sphere has 6 DOF in space.
  • Another participant provides equations relating the center of the sphere to its rolling motion, including a contact relation and a rolling without sliding condition, indicating that the sphere has 3 free DOF.
  • hossein expresses confusion regarding the notation used, specifically the meaning of time derivatives and the distinction between angular velocity vectors phi and omega.
  • The responding participant clarifies that phi represents the angular velocity vector of the sphere, while omega describes the angular velocity vector related to the versor e_{r}.
  • hossein inquires about the nature of rotation about the z-axis when the sphere is in contact with the fixed sphere, questioning if this constitutes rolling.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on whether the question pertains to the spin motion of the sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple viewpoints regarding the definitions and implications of the motion of the sphere, particularly concerning the nature of rolling and the interpretation of angular velocities. No consensus has been reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the definitions of angular velocities or the conditions under which the sphere's rotation can be considered rolling. The discussion relies on specific mathematical relationships that may depend on the assumptions made about the system.

hmoein
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hi , every one!
I have a problem with a sphere rolling on a fixed sphere. My problem is to find relationship between coordinate of center of sphere (X,Y,Z) and orientations (alpha, beta, gamma) or Euler angles of sphere. as we know a sphere has 6 DOF in space (3 coordiantes and 3 rotation) when a sphere rolling on surface we expect that it have 3 dof beacuse of relation beween coordinate and rotation.
for example when a circle roll on a surface the x coordinate of its center is:
X=R*teta (R = radius of circle) and it has one DOF.
Like the circle rolling i want to find the relations for sphere.
thanks
hossein
 
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Hi
for a sphere of center C and radius R rolling on a fixed sphere centered at origin with radius 1 you have (using polar reference)

- a relation for contact: C = (1+R) e_{r}
- relation for rolling without sliding: \dot{C} = R * \phi \times e_{r},

where \dot{C} = (1+R) \omega \times e_{r} (the latter is the time derivative of the first eq.),

and where e_{r} describe the versor pointing the moving ball center, \phi is the moving ball angular velocity (or displacement) and \omega the angular velocity (or displacement) related to e_{r} through the relation \dot{e_{r}} = \omega \times e_{r}.

Then the ball has 3 free DOF, \omega and \phi_{//}=\phi \cdot e_{r}, with

d \phi_{\bot}=d \omega (1+R)/R.

Look to the attached mathematica file for the simpler case of circle rolling on circle (1 free DOF).

M
 

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hi drMs
thanks for your answer. i don't understand about \\time e_{r}. and what is difference between \\phi and \\omega?
could you expalin more?
best regard
hossein
 
Hi-
\times means vector product. \phi is the (free) angular velocity vector describing the rotation of the ball. \omega is the (free) angular velocity vector describing the rotation of the versor e_{r} (which I used for the lagrangian parameters of the moving ball center).

M
 
thank you very much
 
Hi drMs
suppose that the moving sphere is in contact with th efixed one at one contact point.
is the rotattion about the z axis (axis that is perpendicular to the contact surface and pass through center of sphere ) rolling?
 
Hi
It is not really clear to me the question. You mean the spin motion (rotation of the ball with rotation vector parallel to the segment connecting the two centers)?
 

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