Understanding the Three Body Problem in Space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the complexities of the three body problem in orbital mechanics, specifically focusing on the dynamics of a small body orbiting a middle-sized body, which in turn orbits a much larger body. Participants explore the implications of mass ratios and orbital distances, as well as the limitations imposed by concepts such as the Hill sphere and Laplace's sphere of influence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario involving a very light body in a circular orbit around a heavier body, questioning the orbit of the light body and whether specific distance ratios (0.9 and 1.1 times the radius) need corrections.
  • Another participant discusses the limitations of the largest orbit a body can have around another when the second body orbits a third, referencing the Hill sphere and providing a mathematical expression for it.
  • Further contributions mention an alternative to the Hill sphere, the Laplace sphere of influence, and provide a different formula for calculating the sphere of influence, noting that neither is truly spherical.
  • Some participants reflect on the unsolved nature of the three body problem, emphasizing the challenges and approximations involved in finding solutions.
  • A later reply expresses confusion regarding the geometrical constraints of the three body problem and acknowledges the complexities of defining the problem accurately.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a general agreement on the challenges posed by the three body problem and the limitations of existing models, but there are competing views on the specific implications of the Hill sphere and Laplace's sphere of influence, as well as the validity of the proposed distance ratios.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the three body problem remains unsolved in a general sense, and there are unresolved questions regarding the applicability of certain mathematical models and the assumptions underlying them.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying orbital mechanics, astrophysics, or anyone curious about the complexities of multi-body gravitational interactions.

JANm
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Suppose a body in a circular orbit around a very heavy one. The body itself has a very light one moving in an small orbit in the same plane.

1 What is the orbit of the very light one in space?

very= 1000 times, so the heaviest= 1 million times heavier than the "smallest".

small=1/10, so the smallest distance of the very light one 0,9 times the radius of the orbit of the body around the heaviest and the largest distance of the very light one is 1,1 times the radius of the orbit of the body around the heaviest one, approximately.

2 do these numbers 0,9 and 1,1 need corrections?
 
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The largest orbit a one body can have around another body when the 2nd body orbits a third body is limited by the Hill sphere.

This is found by:

[tex]R = a \sqrt[3]{\frac{m}{3M}}[/tex]

In this case, we define "a" as the orbit of the middle sized object around the largest object and assign it a value of 1.

m is the mass of the middle sized object and also will equal 1
M is the mass of the largest object and therefore = 1000.

so:

[tex]R = 1 \sqrt[3]{\frac{1}{3(100)}} = 0.069[/tex]

Which is smaller than the 0.1 you are trying to use for the smallest object's orbit around the middle sized one. IOW, the smallest object cannot orbit at that distance from the middle sized one. It would be pulled away into an independent orbit around the largest object.
 
The three body problem in orbital mechanics has, to my knowledge, never been completely solved. It is a humbling reminder of how much we have yet to learn about the universe. We can, however, approximate solutions to problems such as this, as well as much more complicated systems with amazing accuracy.
 
Janus said:
The largest orbit a one body can have around another body when the 2nd body orbits a third body is limited by the Hill sphere.

This is found by:

[tex]R = a \sqrt[3]{\frac{m}{3M}}[/tex]
More or less. This is a three body problem, after all. An alternative to the Hill sphere is Laplace's sphere of influence:

[tex]R = a\left(\frac m M\right)^{2/5}[/tex]

With M=1000*m, the sphere of influence is 6.3% of the distance between the primary and secondary bodies (compare to 6.9% for the Hill sphere).

Interestingly, neither the Hill sphere nor the sphere of influence is a sphere.
 
Chronos said:
The three body problem in orbital mechanics has, to my knowledge, never been completely solved. It is a humbling reminder of how much we have yet to learn about the universe. We can, however, approximate solutions to problems such as this, as well as much more complicated systems with amazing accuracy.
Hello Chronos
Thanks for this poetical way of understanding three body problems.
I don't quite understand the Lagrange like boarders for posing three-body problems... I have taken care that my problem didnot counteract geometrical possibility by defining radii, I have sayd things about masses, must say have defined them relatively absolute, but the impossibilities of the posing of the question gathers around...
greetings Janm
 

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