Understanding Vector Spaces in Real Analysis

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of two sets of differentiable functions and whether they qualify as real vector spaces based on the definitions of addition and scalar multiplication. Participants explore the implications of the presence or absence of the zero function and the conditions for closure under addition.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the reasoning behind the classification of the two sets as vector spaces, suggesting that the answer might be incorrect.
  • Another participant raises the issue of whether the second set contains the zero function, emphasizing the importance of the additive identity in defining a vector space.
  • A third participant prompts others to identify a zero element in set A, encouraging exploration of the properties of the functions in that set.
  • One participant introduces a general result about subspaces, noting that a subset must be closed under scaling and linear combinations to be considered a subspace.
  • A later reply clarifies that "zero" refers to the zero function, which is differentiable and has specific properties that affect its inclusion in the sets being discussed.
  • Another participant points out that set B is not closed under addition, questioning the validity of the vector space classification based on the behavior of functions at a specific point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of the sets as vector spaces, with no consensus reached on whether the initial answer is correct. Multiple competing interpretations of the properties of the sets remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the ambiguity in the terminology used regarding the zero function and its implications for the classification of the sets. The discussion also reflects on the conditions necessary for a set of functions to be considered a vector space, particularly regarding closure under addition.

gilabert1985
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Hi, I have this problem that is solved, but I don't understand the theory behind it.

It says: Which of the following sets, with the natural definitions of addition and scalar multiplication, form real vector spaces?

A) The set of all differentiable functions f:(0,1)\rightarrow\Re such that f+f'=0.
B) The set of all differentiable functions f:(-1,1)\rightarrow\Re such that f+f'=0 and f(0)=1.

The answer says the first one is a vector space, but that the second one is not because zero does not belong to the set... However, I don't see the reasoning behind it. Maybe they are supposed to be the opposite (A is not a vector space and B is) and the answer is wrong? No one has complained about it and there is nothing on the course forum, so I think the answers should be correct :/

Thanks a lot!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
but that the second one is not because zero does not belong to the set... However, I don't see the reasoning behind it.

Does the second set contain the zero function? Can a set of functions be a vector space over the reals if they lack an additive identity (the zero function)? What does the definition of "vector space" say?
 
Let's call the sets defined in A) and B), A and B. Then try to think of a zero element in set A and in set B.

A zero element in set A would be an element g \in A such that for all f \in A: f + g = f.

Can you find such an element in A?
 
Another general result that answers your questions is:

Given a vector space V, then a subset S of V is a subspace if V is closed under

scaling and under linear combinations (you can clearly describe the first condition

as part of the second.). It is a nice exercise to show that if S satisfies these,

then S is a subspace of V .
 
gilabert1985 said:
The answer says the first one is a vector space, but that the second one is not because zero does not belong to the set

Remember, when they say "zero" in this context they do not mean the number zero. They mean the zero function. This is an ambiguous usage that you have to keep in mind when dealing with sets of functions.

What is the zero function? It's the function that takes the value zero for every value of its domain. It's the function we'd denote as f(x) = 0. Its graph is the x-axis.

It's differentiable on the entire real line. Its derivative is also the zero function.

Now, what is the value of the zero function at the point x = 0? Well, (x) = 0 for all values of x, so f(0) = 0. But in part (b) we are asked to consider functions such that f(x) = 1. The zero function doesn't have that property, so it's not in that set.
 
Last edited:
It's easy to see that B is not closed under addition. If f(0) = 1 and g(0) = 1, then what is (f+g)(0)?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
9K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
4K