The discussion explores the concept of creation and consciousness in relation to the universe, questioning whether the universe can know itself and the implications of such awareness. It delves into philosophical inquiries about intentionality, perception, and the nature of reality, with participants sharing personal experiences and reflections.
Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of creation, consciousness, and reality. There is no consensus on whether the universe can know itself or the implications of such knowledge.
Limitations include the subjective nature of personal experiences and the challenge of discussing abstract concepts that may not be universally understood or observable.
Well, the flaw in that analogy is this:Xznkl said:Sometimes, a thing is created without any intentional design. And yet when it's complete, you feel as if you had it in mind all along.
If the universe operates in this way, will there be a day when it knows itself for the first time?
DaveC426913 said:Well, the flaw in that analogy is this:
In the human example, you are talking about a conscious mind creating something - whether intentionally or unintentionally.
That precondition does not exist in the case of the universe. There is no designing mechanism which could develop something unintentionally, let alone intentionally.
Xznkl said:And if the universe has a consciousness? And suppose you can create without consciousness?
OOO said:And if you are supposing too much ? And what if you are not talking about your experience but rather about something someone has told you while your consciousness was half awake, thereby creating an attitude of his own liking ?
Xznkl said:I don't think that is the case. And who's to say I am supposing too much, I guess you are. I don't feel that I am. I think it doesn't really matter at the end.
I know that when you are quite complete, you will see who you are for the first time. If we are part of creation, and if looking at creation as a whole. It doesn't know itself because there is no self...but suppose that it will happen the same that happens to me, will it know itself for the first time? And if it does, what is it like? What will happen?
Sorry but this answer seems to be somewhat of a lame excuse.Xznkl said:What is it? Everything and nothing
I understand, I have also seen different things in my life, some stranger than others. But what does this help ?Xznkl said:Have you seen it? Yes, but not ALL of it.
That sounds more modest now. I could agree with that statement.Xznkl said:I don't think you can look at creation as a whole. But you can say come closer to it than someone else, or closer than last year.
Haven't we just agreed that we can't look at all the parts ? It's a mental construction and as such it is subject to failure. In my opinion there can be no doubt that an objective reality exists, but nobody can say what it is.Xznkl said:If you look at all the parts, do you think it will develope consciousness?
A needs B if you can't observe A without B occurring as well. The problem is that not only you can't observe A (creation as a whole) at all, but you can't observe B (consciousness outside of your self perception) as well. So this question cannot be answered by using words and logic.Xznkl said:And aside from that, does creation need consciousness?
Xznkl said:So you tell me how to go about it?
Seeing that i can't talk about it like this, how can i talk about it?
OOO said:You may talk endlessly about it, but for what reason ?
Xznkl said:Because I believe that an individual's reality might come very close to the objective reality you were speaking about. And for that to happen i'd have to talk about it or else I don't think I will get anywhere sane.