Units problem with my Hamilton's equations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around Hamilton's equations and the transformation of canonical variables in the context of classical mechanics. The original poster presents a Hamiltonian and a generating function, seeking to derive new coordinates and solve related equations while grappling with unit consistency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive expressions for new coordinates and questions the validity of unit comparisons in their results. Some participants inquire about the nature of the units for the new variables and whether they can differ from traditional linear momentum units.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing insights into the nature of generalized coordinates. There is a recognition of potential discrepancies in unit consistency, and multiple interpretations of the problem's requirements are being explored.

Contextual Notes

The original poster expresses confusion regarding the implications of comparing time units with squared momentum units, indicating a need for clarification on the assumptions underlying the problem setup.

fluidistic
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Homework Statement


Let the Hamiltonian with canonical variables be [itex]H(q,p)=\frac{\alpha ^3 e^{2\alpha q }}{p^3}[/itex] where alpha is a constant.
1)Given the generating function [itex]F(q,Q)=\frac{e^{2\alpha q }}{Q}[/itex], find the expression of the new coordinates in function of the old ones: [itex]Q(q,p)[/itex] and [itex]P(q,p)[/itex].
2)Find the expression of [itex]K(Q,P)[/itex] and the corresponding Hamiltonian equations.
3)With the initial conditions [itex]Q(t=0)=Q_0[/itex] and [itex]P(t=0)=P_0[/itex], solve these equations for times [itex]t<P_0^2/2[/itex].
4)Find [itex]q(t)[/itex] and [itex]p(t)[/itex] for the initial conditions [itex]q(0)=0[/itex] and [itex]p(0)=1[/itex].

Homework Equations


Lots of.

The Attempt at a Solution


1)I found out [itex]Q=\frac{\alpha e^{\alpha q}}{p}[/itex] and [itex]P=\frac{p^2}{\alpha ^2 e^{\alpha q}}[/itex].
2)The Hamiltonian in function of the new variables gave me [itex]K=\frac{Q}{P}[/itex]. This simple expression makes me feel I didn't make any mistake yet.
3)Hamilton equations gave me [itex]\dot P=-\frac{1}{P}[/itex] and [itex]\dot Q = -\frac{Q}{P^2}[/itex].
Solving the first equation gave me [itex]\frac{P^2}{2}=-t+\frac{P_0^2}{2}[/itex]. But... I am adding a time with a linear momentum squared ( kg times m /s )^2. How can this be right? Even in the problem statement, they write "[itex]t<P_0^2/2[/itex]", does this even make sense?
By the way I do not know how to answer to question 3. Can someone help me?
 
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Liquidxlax said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generating_function_(physics)

you're are using the rules of F1 right?

it should fall out pretty easy from that

Yes I do, I actually solved part 1 and 2 (stuck on part 3).
Just a question... P and Q can in theory have any units? Because the problem statement compares time unit vs [itex]P^2[/itex] units. In other words, can P have units of [itex]\sqrt s[/itex]?
 
fluidistic said:
Yes I do, I actually solved part 1 and 2 (stuck on part 3).
Just a question... P and Q can in theory have any units? Because the problem statement compares time unit vs [itex]P^2[/itex] units. In other words, can P have units of [itex]\sqrt s[/itex]?

I can't say for sure as I'm currently learning this as well, but i think you're right so long as the transformation is canonical

MJMT=J the units are negligible

I just had my midterm and 2 of the canonical transforms didn't have proper units yet i did get the questions right
 
Ah ok thanks a lot.
Assuming what I found is right then for part 3) I find [itex]P(t)=\sqrt {-2t+P_0^2}[/itex] and [itex]Q(t)=e^{\frac{\ln (2t+P_0^2 )-\ln (P_0^2)}{2}+\ln Q_0}[/itex].
For 4), I assume they meant q(t) and p(t) as written and not Q(t) and P(t) that I just found. Otherwise the condition [itex]Q_0=0[/itex] would be a real problem.
 
i figured since i can't explain it i'd actually do the problem and i did not get the same P as you

i got P = (p2e-2αq)/4α2

P = -dF/dQ = e2αq/Q2

maybe that is why you're not getting your desired units?

i'm not going to finish the problem because I've suffered enough with my homework and midterms lol
 
Last edited:
My bad I made a typo when writing F here. It should be [itex]F(q,Q)=\frac{e^{\alpha q}}{Q}[/itex]. I do not see any other typo for now... sorry about that.
P.S.:No problem if you don't solve the problem. :) But now I'm convinced P and for that matter, p can have almost any possible units. Not necessarily the ones of linear momentum or so, as I previously thought.
 
These are generalized coordinates, so p and P don't necessarily have to be linear momentum.
 
ygolo said:
These are generalized coordinates, so p and P don't necessarily have to be linear momentum.

I see, thank you. Their name/letter mislead me.
 

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