Ilmrak
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TrickyDicky said:As commented, there is a mathematical, and therefore physical disconnect between the accelerated observers and the other observers.
Sorry I still don't understand this.
The connection between the accelerated observer and the inertial one is continuous...
Could you please explain another time what are you meaning?
tom.stoer said:@Maui: we can't! We have something like "veiled reality" (Bernard d’Espagnat) which is already a strange thing, but the Unruh effects adds additional problems. Of course one could believe in a structural realism using field operators and states but that has nothing to do with realism (in the naive sense) which requires at least some "similarities" between "reality" and "perception". If you give up these concept you should no longer call it "realism" or "reality".
@Ilmrak: I see two problems
a) with one red and one blue photon we still can agree on the total number of photons, i.e. on the number of ticks registered by the detector; with the Unruh effect the number of ticks changes
b) your position seems to be closed to positivism, therefore you don't really care about my problem; or you tend to call something "real" b/c you use it to do calculations (like a field operator); this I would call "structural realism" and it's logically consistent
How Unruh effect rise more doubts than this on the reality of a particle?
a) If your detector is only sensible to red photons then in one frame it ticks but not in the other.
I agree this is a bit different from what happens in the Unruh effect, but what I'm saying is that using a detector in an inertial frame or in presence of a gravitational field is as setting two different experiments and so seems natural to have two different results (as long as the laws that describes such results are the same in the two frames).
b) Yes, maybe what you call “structural realism” could be close to my position.
Anyway, I still have some difficulties in understanding exactly what's the point on which we are debating :-)
Sorry if I insist on this, but could you explain exactly in what is the Unruh effect more challenging then the fact that in GR the energy contained in some fixed region of space depends on the coordinate system used?
As I understand it there are not much interpretation differences besides the exchange particle\leftrightarrowenergy, and I don't get why particles are "more real" then energy.
DaleSpam said:IMO, the biggest challenge to "physical reality" is defining what we mean by the term, particularly from an experimental/scientific perspective. Once we have a testable definition then we can apply it and see, until then we are just discussing philosophy.
Do you have a proposal for a "physical reality" test?
Maybe you're right and we should debate on what the “physical reality” is to resolve this...
Ilm