Upper indices and lower indices in Einstein notation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of upper and lower indices in Einstein notation, particularly in the context of defining the cross product. Participants explore the physical understanding of why different index positions are used in the notation and seek clarification on the underlying principles.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the cross product can be defined using both upper and lower indices with the Levi-Civita symbol, questioning the physical interpretation of this notation.
  • Another participant suggests that understanding the distinction between upper and lower indices is tied to the concept of dual vector spaces, especially in the context of curved spacetime.
  • A participant provides a mathematical expression for a vector in terms of its components and basis vectors, indicating that upper indices represent components while lower indices represent basis vectors.
  • There is mention of the transformation laws for components and basis vectors, with some uncertainty expressed about whether the explanation provided is correct.
  • One participant expresses confusion about when to use upper or lower indices and requests examples for clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the use of indices in Einstein notation, with some seeking further clarification and examples. There is no consensus on the best way to approach the topic, and some confusion remains about the transformation laws associated with the indices.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the discussion may benefit from additional resources, such as textbooks or lecture notes, to provide a more comprehensive understanding of the topic.

GGGGc
I have read some text about defining the cross product. It can be defined by both a x b = epsilon_(ijk) a^j b^k e-hat^i and a x b = epsilon^(ijk) a_i b_j e-hat^k
why the a and b have opposite indice positions with the epsilon? How to understand that physically?
 
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This is the text i read
 
PeroK said:
I've already checked that, but I'm still confused about when to use upper or lower indices, do you have some examples? Thanks for answering my question!
 
GGGGc said:
I've already checked that, but I'm still confused about when to use upper or lower indices, do you have some examples? Thanks for answering my question!
You really need a textbook or lecture notes, as there is a lot to say on this. The basic idea comes from the notaion of a dual vector space. In Euclidean space, the dual space can be associated directly with the original space, so there is no need for a distinction. And, generally a vector is written as a sum of its components in any coordinate basis:
$$\mathbf a = \sum_{i = 1}^n a_i\mathbf e_i$$Where ##\mathbf e_i## are the basis vectors. When we come to curved spacetime, the dual space can no longer be directly associated with the original space. Therefore, we have a coordinate basis and a dual basis and a vector is expressed in terms of the basis and a dual vector in terms of the dual basis. (Note that this concept extends to tensors of any rank.) The einstein notation not only dropped the summation symbol, but used upper indices to represent components of a vector and lower indices to represent the basis vectors. This is because the components obey the contravariant transformation law and the basis vectors obey the covariant transformation law (you better check I've got that the right way round!). So, we write:
$$\mathbf a = a^{\alpha}\mathbf e_{\alpha}$$Conversely, the components of a dual vector (also known as a one-form) obey the covariant transformation law and the basis dual vectors obey the contravariant law. So, for a dual vector, we write:$$\mathbf w = w_{\alpha}\mathbf \theta^{\alpha}$$Where ##\mathbf \theta^{\alpha}## are the basis dual vectors.

That should get you started, but whatever you are studying should go into the Einstein notation in sufficient depth.
 
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Thank you so much for your explanation! I'm quite clear now!
 
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