- #1
aerohead_18
- 33
- 4
USAF Academy develops new body armor material
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around a new body armor material developed by cadets at the USAF Academy, which reportedly utilizes a non-Newtonian fluid to stop bullets. Participants explore the implications, effectiveness, and potential applications of this material in comparison to traditional armor solutions, particularly focusing on its performance against different types of ammunition.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Debate/contested
- Technical explanation
Main Points Raised
- Some participants express curiosity about the properties and applications of non-Newtonian fluids, questioning their effectiveness in armor and whether they have been used previously.
- One participant argues that the new material has only demonstrated effectiveness against handgun bullets, which are of lower velocity and density, suggesting that traditional Kevlar vests are more practical and effective for stopping bullets.
- Concerns are raised about the logistical advantages of the new material compared to existing solutions like Kevlar and steel or ceramic plates, with one participant labeling the innovation as a gimmick.
- Another participant mentions that previous experiments with non-Newtonian fluids for armor have shown that a large volume would be required to stop even small arms fire, questioning the practicality of such an approach.
- There is a reference to "Dragon Skin" armor, with one participant asserting that it fails standardized military testing, while another emphasizes the cost-effectiveness and protective capabilities of established armor technologies like AR500 steel plates.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express a range of opinions, with some supporting the exploration of new materials while others remain skeptical about their practicality and effectiveness compared to traditional armor solutions. No consensus is reached regarding the advantages of the new body armor material.
Contextual Notes
Participants highlight limitations in the current testing of the new material, particularly its performance against only handgun ammunition, and the potential need for large quantities of non-Newtonian fluid to achieve effective protection.
- #2
berkeman
Admin
- 69,411
- 24,808
You go first...aerohead_18 said:
- #3
aerohead_18
- 33
- 4
@berkeman I'm not a chemist or engineer or materials scientist or anything like that, so I'm asking for more qualified people's thoughts on it because I'm trying to learn, not give my own uneducated opinion. But if I had to come up with some specific questions, I suppose I'd ask about non-Newtonian fluids in general, like how they work and how else they can be used, and if they've ever been used in armor before.
- #4
RogueOne
- 130
- 57
It is interesting, but I will point out that it has only stopped hand gun bullets so far. Hand gun bullets are of low velocity and very low cross sectional density. There are plenty of cheaper and easier to carry methods of stopping bullets. Kevlar vests do that without any non-Newtonian fluid.
I am having a hard time seeing the advantage in performance or logistics that this idea has when compared to a standard Kevlar vest. If it could stop actual rifle ammunition, it would be advantageous relative to the steel or ceramic level III and IV body plates. However, this can only stop pistol ammunition. This is a gimmick, in my opinion. USAF probably does not care about this technology. This was pursued, most likely because their PR/HR/Journalists thought that it would make a good story for their website.
As far as I can tell, this brings no actual demonstrable advantage over a standard Kevlar material. Most people are capable of combining materials that can stop 44 magnum bullets. There are lots of youtube videos of people making different types of body armor and stopping bullets that are actually good at barrier penetration (44 mag is one of the least capable rounds for defeating any sort of armor).
There have been a few experiments with non-Newtonian fluids for stopping bullets. The amount of fluid that would be needed to stop even small arms fire would be absurdly large. It might be easier to bring your own hill around on a pallet and hide behind that pile of dirt than it would be to use non-Newtonian fluids as armor against even a common civilian's 30-06 deer hunting rifle.
When it comes to cost vs. weight vs. actual protection that you get: This is 50 steps behind AR500 steel.
I am having a hard time seeing the advantage in performance or logistics that this idea has when compared to a standard Kevlar vest. If it could stop actual rifle ammunition, it would be advantageous relative to the steel or ceramic level III and IV body plates. However, this can only stop pistol ammunition. This is a gimmick, in my opinion. USAF probably does not care about this technology. This was pursued, most likely because their PR/HR/Journalists thought that it would make a good story for their website.
As far as I can tell, this brings no actual demonstrable advantage over a standard Kevlar material. Most people are capable of combining materials that can stop 44 magnum bullets. There are lots of youtube videos of people making different types of body armor and stopping bullets that are actually good at barrier penetration (44 mag is one of the least capable rounds for defeating any sort of armor).
There have been a few experiments with non-Newtonian fluids for stopping bullets. The amount of fluid that would be needed to stop even small arms fire would be absurdly large. It might be easier to bring your own hill around on a pallet and hide behind that pile of dirt than it would be to use non-Newtonian fluids as armor against even a common civilian's 30-06 deer hunting rifle.
When it comes to cost vs. weight vs. actual protection that you get: This is 50 steps behind AR500 steel.
Last edited:
- #5
the professor
- 9
- 0
before this get out of hand ! check out DRAGON SKIN- and no you won't find hobbits.
- #6
RogueOne
- 130
- 57
Dragon skin fails all of the standardized testing conducted by the U.S military for armor. If you are interested in the armor technology that has the best cost/weight/protection characteristics, then here you go.
These products represent the industry standard. $155 for a level IV plate, and you can stop a .30 caliber tungsten-core AP bullet fired from a 30-06. If you find a fundamentally cheaper way to do that without adding weight to the armor, then you better get a patent on that before you even tell your wife.
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iii-lightweight-body-armor.html
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iv-body-armor.html
These products represent the industry standard. $155 for a level IV plate, and you can stop a .30 caliber tungsten-core AP bullet fired from a 30-06. If you find a fundamentally cheaper way to do that without adding weight to the armor, then you better get a patent on that before you even tell your wife.
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iii-lightweight-body-armor.html
http://www.ar500armor.com/ar500-armor-body-armor/level-iv-body-armor.html
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