Use of Design point for a gas turbine engine

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity and methodology for determining the design point of a gas turbine engine, particularly in the context of testing engine performance. Participants explore concepts related to design points, performance curves, and specific parameters like bypass ratio (BPR) and fan pressure ratio (FPR).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that finding a design point is essential for testing engine performance, typically involving specific power and heat rate at defined inlet conditions.
  • Others argue that while testing can be conducted to develop a performance curve, it may be costly and that manufacturers usually provide necessary design point information.
  • A participant expresses interest in using a carpet plot to determine the design point for a turbofan engine based on BPR and FPR values.
  • Another participant questions the understanding of BPR and FPR, seeking clarification on whether the inquiry pertains to designing an engine or analyzing existing engine data.
  • One participant clarifies that BPR refers to bypass ratio and FPR refers to fan pressure ratio, stating their intent to model an existing engine and validate it against original data.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the design point is typically specified by the customer, often based on operational conditions like sea level takeoff or best fuel economy at cruise, and mentions the importance of trade-offs in performance specifications.
  • A later reply suggests that determining the design point may require more comprehensive data beyond just BPR and FPR, including overall pressure ratio and turbine entry temperature (TET), and proposes a method for plotting these values to derive a range of results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to determine the design point, with multiple competing views on the necessity and methodology for its identification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific techniques and parameters to be used.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the design point criteria, dependencies on specific definitions of performance metrics, and unresolved mathematical steps in the proposed plotting methods.

avinod4all
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
In order to test the performance of a specific engine, is it necessary to find a design point? If so could anyone tell me how to find the design point for gas turbine engine and suggest any useful materials that gives good information about Design point performance.
Thank you!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Generally when testing engines part of the criteria is that it should meet the design point, usually, power and heat rate at a set of specified inlet conditions. There is no reason why you couldn't test an engine just to develop a performance curve, but it's an expensive way to get something that the manufacturer should be able to provide.
 
Thank you!
I want to draw a design point for a turbofan engine using a carpet plot, can i draw graph to find out the design point just by using the range of BPR and FPR values?
 
Sorry you've lost me, what are BPR and FPR values?
Are you trying to design an engine or do you have engine data and want to analyse it?
 
Jobrag said:
Sorry you've lost me, what are BPR and FPR values?
Are you trying to design an engine or do you have engine data and want to analyse it?

BPR- Bypass ratio; FPR- Fan pressure ratio
I am trying to develop a model of an existing engine and later, test the outputs with the original data. So first, I am looking to find the design point of the engine.
 
I'm confused as to what you are trying to do. The customer will specify the design point. Normally is is something like a sea level take off under full load. Then they will request best performance on various secondary points. Then you discuss trade offs. On a commercial airline application, the customer might make the primary design point "best fuel ecconomy at cruise," which is at idle power at altitude; but then also specify what worst case take off loads are.
 
avinod4all said:
Thank you!
I want to draw a design point for a turbofan engine using a carpet plot, can i draw graph to find out the design point just by using the range of BPR and FPR values?
Hi there,
i don't think u can obtain the design point just by predicting/from previous data from BPR and FPR, it should be an overall pressure ratio and TET as well for example take some X, X1 and X2 engines (all three should be either be turbo jet or turbofan, better try thrust levels not being out of range) try finding the data for it like TET, BPR etc now try plotting BPR vs Engine X and overall Pressure vs Eng etc for engine X1 and X2 also, then you can get series of results where you can obtain some specific range of values, i think the values you get may be matched to the one you are saying the carpet plot(i don't know anything about caper plot).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
6K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
925
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K