Van der Waal repulsion and Lennard Jones potential

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    Potential Repulsion
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the theoretical derivation of the Lennard-Jones potential, specifically the components of the potential and their physical interpretations. Participants explore various sources, including papers and textbooks, that address the derivation and implications of the potential in the context of intermolecular forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests references for a theoretical derivation of the Lennard-Jones potential.
  • Another participant cites J E Lennard-Jones's article "Cohesion" as a source, along with various academic lecture notes and a Wikipedia article.
  • Concerns are raised about the physicality of the ##\frac{1}{r^{12}}## term, suggesting it is a numerical convenience rather than a physically meaningful component.
  • It is noted that the ##\frac{1}{r^6}## term arises from a perturbative treatment of dipole-dipole interactions, representing the short-distance limit of the full interaction without considering retardation effects.
  • References to "Molecular Quantum Electrodynamics" by Craig and Thirunamachandran and a three-volume QM textbook by Cohen-Tannoudji, Diu, and Laloe are provided for further details on the derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the physical significance of the ##\frac{1}{r^{12}}## term, with some arguing it is merely a numerical artifact while others focus on the derivation of the ##\frac{1}{r^6}## term. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of these components.

Contextual Notes

There are references to various sources that may contain derivations, but no consensus on a singular authoritative derivation is reached. The discussion includes assumptions about the physical relevance of certain terms in the potential.

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Hello there. Do you know any paper that derive the Lennard Jones potential ##V = \epsilon [(\delta / r)^{12}-2(\delta / r)^6]## theorically? If you know a book instead, let me know. Thank you
 
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Apparently, J E Lennard-Jones discusses some details in an article entitled, Cohesion, in the Proceedings of the Physical Society (1926-1948)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0959-5309/43/5/301 (must be purchased or accessed through one institution)

Otherwise, one can find notes in various university or academic lectures.
https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...Specific_Interactions/Lennard-Jones_Potential

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...cific_Interactions/Dipole-Dipole_Interactions

The Wikipedia article seems consistent with some academic notes I reviewed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennard-Jones_potential#Physical_background_and_mathematical_details
 
The ##\frac{1}{r^{12}}## portion is not physical--it's just a numerically convenient way to approximate a rapidly increasing function. It's a vestige from a time when computers were much much slower.

The ##\frac{1}{r^6}## portion comes from treating the dipole-dipole interaction perturbatively to second order. This is actually the short-distance limit of the full interaction, not taking into account retardation effects. The full derivation in all its gory details of both short (London) and long (Casimir-Polder) limits is given in "Molecular Quantum Electrodynamics" by Craig and Thirunamachandran (p. 152ff): https://www.google.com/books/editio...rpbdozIZt3sC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
 
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TeethWhitener said:
The ##\frac{1}{r^6}## portion comes from treating the dipole-dipole interaction perturbatively to second order. This is actually the short-distance limit of the full interaction, not taking into account retardation effects. The full derivation in all its gory details of both short (London) and long (Casimir-Polder) limits is given in "Molecular Quantum Electrodynamics" by Craig and Thirunamachandran (p. 152ff): https://www.google.com/books/editio...rpbdozIZt3sC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover
A derivation can also be found in the 3-volume QM textbook by Cohen-Tannoudji, Diu and Laloe, Chapter XI.C.
 
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