Vector Equation for Force Between Electric Dipoles

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on calculating the force between two electric dipoles using the potential energy formula W_D = -p · E. The force is derived from the energy using the equation F = -∇W_D, leading to the expression F = (p · ∇)E. The professor's solution indicates that the term (E · p)∇ equals zero, which remains unclear to the participants. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding vector calculus identities in the context of electric dipole interactions.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of electric dipole moments and their representation
  • Familiarity with vector calculus, specifically gradient and divergence operations
  • Knowledge of the electric field generated by dipoles, particularly E = (1/4πε₀r³)[3p · a_r - p]
  • Proficiency in using vector identities, such as the BAC-CAB identity
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of electric dipole fields in detail
  • Learn about vector calculus identities and their applications in physics
  • Explore the implications of curl and divergence in electromagnetic theory
  • Investigate the conditions under which terms in vector equations can be simplified to zero
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, particularly those focusing on electromagnetism, vector calculus, and electric dipole interactions.

Xyius
Messages
501
Reaction score
4
(All the variables are vectors, I just didn't feel like fumbling around with the LateX code to make them vectors. Its late and I'm tired a lazy!)

Homework Statement


(This is paraphrased)
There are two dipoles with arbitrary direction to each other. You know the energy between the dipoles is..

W_D=-p \cdot E

What is the force between them? F_{1,2}

Homework Equations


Force:
F=-\nabla W_D

Electric Field of a Dipole:
E=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0 r^3}[3p \cdot a_r-p]

a_r is the unit vector from p1 to p2.

The Attempt at a Solution



Using the following vector identity..
\nabla (a \cdot b)=(a \cdot \nabla)b+(b \cdot \nabla)a+a×(\nabla × b)+b×(\nabla × a)

-\nabla (-p \cdot E)=\nabla (p \cdot E)=(p \cdot \nabla)E+(E \cdot \nabla)p+p×(\nabla × E)+E×(\nabla ×p)

So I know \nabla × E =0 and E×(\nabla ×p)=(E \cdot p)\nabla-(E \cdot \nabla)p

So plugging these in, I get.

F=(p \cdot \nabla)E+(E \cdot p)\nabla

The prof gives the answer as, F=(p \cdot \nabla)E

So that means (E \cdot p)\nabla=0 But I cannot figure out why.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Xyius said:
Its late and I'm tired a lazy!

Sounds French.:-p

E×(\nabla ×p)=(E \cdot p)\nabla-(E \cdot \nabla)p

A vector differential operator does not a vector make. You cannot use the familiar BAC-CAB identity when one of the operands is not really a vector. Instead, what would you expect the curl of a point dipole to be?
 
gabbagabbahey said:
A vector differential operator does not a vector make. You cannot use the familiar BAC-CAB identity when one of the operands is not really a vector. Instead, what would you expect the curl of a point dipole to be?

Hmm... I think I would expect it to be zero. But I am not sure. :\
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
973
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K