Vector Proof Homework: Show Invariance of Distance from Origin

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves demonstrating the invariance of the distance from the origin in a rotated coordinate system. Specifically, it examines how the coordinates of a point change under rotation and whether the distance formula remains unchanged.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss setting the distance formula before and after rotation equal to each other and explore the implications of this equality. There are attempts to simplify the expressions derived from the rotation equations, with some participants questioning the validity of their algebraic manipulations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided hints and suggestions for expanding the expressions and checking for cancellations. There is an acknowledgment of a potential mistake in the algebraic expansion, prompting further examination of the terms involved. The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations and approaches being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the relevance of trigonometric identities, particularly the Pythagorean identity, in simplifying the expressions. There is also mention of the original problem's requirements and the potential for confusion in the algebraic steps taken.

uchicago2012
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Homework Statement


An (x,y) coordinate system is rotated through an angle theta to produce an (x',y') system, see figure.
A point with coordinates (x,y) will have coordinates (x',y') in the rotated system given by:
x'1 = (x1 * cos theta) + (y1 * sin theta)
y'1 = (-x1 * sin theta) + (y1 * cos theta)
Show that the formula for the distance of the point from the origin is invariant, or unchanged, by the rotation. That is, show:
sqrt (x12 + y12) = sqrt (x'12 + y'12)


Homework Equations


I don't know if these are really relevant, I just thought so:
ax = a cos theta
ay = a sin theta
a = sqrt (ax2 + ay2)
tan theta = ay/ax
where a = the magnitude of vector a and theta = the angle vector a makes with the positive direction of the x axis

The Attempt at a Solution


So I thought this was asking, more or less, to prove that rotating the axes changes the components of the vector but not the vector itself.

I set the two equations given equal to each other, subbing in the information given for x' and y', but I don't know how to proceed or even if this was a good place to start. Any ideas for starting off?

sqrt (x12 + y12) = sqrt (((x1 * cos theta) + (y1 * sin theta))2 + ((-x1 * sin theta) + (y1 * cos theta))2)
 

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uchicago2012 said:
So I thought this was asking, more or less, to prove that rotating the axes changes the components of the vector but not the vector itself.

I set the two equations given equal to each other, subbing in the information given for x' and y', but I don't know how to proceed or even if this was a good place to start. Any ideas for starting off?

sqrt (x12 + y12) = sqrt (((x1 * cos theta) + (y1 * sin theta))2 + ((-x1 * sin theta) + (y1 * cos theta))2)
'Looks good to me so far. :approve:

Leave the left side of the equation alone. Start expanding the right side. See if any terms cancel out as you go. :wink: Eventually you will find the trig identity,

[tex]\cos^2 \theta + \sin^2 \theta = 1[/tex]

quite useful.
 
So I worked on the given equation, simplifying until I got:

(x12 + y12)1/2 = ( (x1 * cos theta)2 + (x1 sin theta)2 + 4(x1 * cos theta * y1 * sin theta) + (y1 * sin theta)2 + (y1 * cos theta)2 )1/2

But I don't see where to go from here. I feel as if I should be able to see a2 + b2 (as in the Pythagorean theorem) in this mess, but I don't see it. Perhaps that's just off base anyway and I just haven't done enough algebra.
 
uchicago2012 said:
So I worked on the given equation, simplifying until I got:

(x12 + y12)1/2 = ( (x1 * cos theta)2 + (x1 sin theta)2 + 4(x1 * cos theta * y1 * sin theta) + (y1 * sin theta)2 + (y1 * cos theta)2 )1/2

But I don't see where to go from here. I feel as if I should be able to see a2 + b2 (as in the Pythagorean theorem) in this mess, but I don't see it. Perhaps that's just off base anyway and I just haven't done enough algebra.
The term in red involves a little mistake. But that little mistake makes a big difference.

Here's a hint. In your original substitution,

[tex]\sqrt{\left( x_1 \cos \theta + y_1 \sin \theta \right) ^2 + \left( {\color{red}{-}} x_1 \sin \theta + y_1 \cos \theta \right) ^2},[/tex]

the x1sinθ has a negative sign attached to it (in red, directly above). However, when you expanded all the terms, everything somehow ended up positive (which is where the mistake fits in). :wink:
 

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