Velocity of spin & electron velocity ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of electron and proton velocities, particularly in the context of atomic structure and quantum mechanics. Participants explore the nature of electron orbits, the concept of spin in protons, and the implications of relativistic effects on electron velocities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons do not have classical orbits but rather probability distributions, referencing graphs of radial probability distributions for hydrogen.
  • It is noted that the "spin" of a proton does not correspond to a classical rotational velocity, indicating a difference in understanding of particle spin.
  • Participants mention that only probability distributions for electron momentum are known, rather than specific velocities in different orbits.
  • One participant introduces the fine structure of atomic spectra, suggesting that relativistic effects on electron velocities were explained by Sommerfeld theory.
  • Another participant references the fine structure constant, alpha, as a ratio of electron speed in the Bohr model to the speed of light, providing a numerical value.
  • There is a discussion about how a nucleus with a large charge affects electron velocities and their relativistic mass, suggesting implications for atomic structure and behavior.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about whether electrons possess velocity in the context discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of electron velocities or the implications of proton spin, with multiple competing views and uncertainties remaining throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the reliance on classical versus quantum mechanical interpretations of electron behavior, as well as unresolved questions about the definitions and implications of velocity in quantum contexts.

Bjarne
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Do we know the answer s to some or all of these equations?

1.) The radius from the centre of a nuclear to the different possible orbit of the electrons
2.) The velocity of a protons spin
3.) The velocity of the electrons in the different electron orbits
 
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Bjarne said:
1.) The radius from the centre of a nuclear to the different possible orbit of the electrons

The electrons don't have "orbits" in the classical sense. Instead, they have probability distributions. Here are graphs of the radial probability distributions for hydrogen:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hydwf.html#c1

2.) The velocity of a protons spin

The "spin" of a proton or other subatomic particle doesn't correspond to a classical rotational velocity, as far as we know.

3.) The velocity of the electrons in the different electron orbits

Similar to (1), we know only probability distributions for the momentum of the electron. I don't happen to have any graphs handy.
 
alpha is said to be the ratio of the speed of the electron in the Bohr atom to the speed of light.

1/137. 35999
 
Bjarne said:
3.) The velocity of the electrons in the different electron orbits

In Sommerfeld theory, the fine structure was explained by the relativistic mass change of the electrons.

Atomic Physics by Max Born
In page 120, It is written as follows,

-------------------------------------------
This is called the fine structure of the spectrum lines.
Its theory was given by Sommerfeld for the case of atoms of the hydrogen type
(H, He+, Li++),
and was first tested by Fowler and Paschen on the spectrum of singly ionized helium (He+), which was found in complete agreement with the theory.
-------------------------------------------------------
http://books.google.com/books?id=Nm...ontcover&dq=Max+Born&lr=#v=onepage&q=&f=false


And the elecron velocity was also written in this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_quantum_chemistry
-----------------------------------------------------------
A nucleus with a large charge will cause an electron to have a high velocity. A higher electron velocity means an increased electron relativistic mass, as a result the electrons will be near the nucleus more of the time and thereby contract the radius for small principal quantum numbers. Color of Gold ... can be explained by the relativistic effect (by the high velocity of the electron).
----------------------------------------------------

I also want to know whether the electron has the velocity or not.
 

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