Verify "New Tech": Help for the Community

[Alaskajoe]

Hello all, I'm not sure if this is the right section. If not please feel free to guide me to the correct one.

In short:

http://ecogenenergy.info/

I was just in a city council meeting and this product was being pushed onto our city assembly.

I heard the phrase "over unity" in the audience and put up a red flag. I am not skilled or well versed in the physics world but I was hoping someone from here could take a bit of time to look at this and let me know if it's snake oil or the real deal (not over unity). It might just all boil down to a "more efficinet magnetic flywheel" whatever that means.

In the breakdown if you could use simple terms that would be great.

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it, I don't want to see my community duped by some random salesman who speaks with conviction.

 

[russ_watters]

Welcome to PF!

I'm moving this to electrical engineering...

http://ecogenenergy.info/

I was just in a city council meeting and this product was being pushed onto our city assembly.

Who, exactly, was pushing it?

I heard the phrase "over unity" in the audience and put up a red flag.

Just a random person in the audience? In either case, good instinct, because if it were, it would violate the laws of physics.

I am not skilled or well versed in the physics world but I was hoping someone from here could take a bit of time to look at this and let me know if it's snake oil or the real deal (not over unity). It might just all boil down to a "more efficinet magnetic flywheel" whatever that means.

In the breakdown if you could use simple terms that would be great.

Well, my take is this:

1. The website is really poor. If this is a real product, it doesn't look like one. Where are the details of the performance? Requirements? Case studies?
2. The website doesn't imply to me overunity, but the details are so thin it is tough to be certain. It says "turbine" in several places, so that implies to me that it is a natural gas turbine powered generator. If that's what it is (with a tiny solar panel added to produce an insignificant amount of additional power), then it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they don't tend to be economical except in specialized applications. In either case, you'd need specific details of the system and its operation and an economic analysis before you would even start considering buying one. For now, you have virtually nothing to go on.

 

[berkeman]

I found a PDF with more details (but still not many).

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...14.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFpjaaYhei4BuxRegoh4rB-KmbqSw

I thought the box might be a gas-fired turbine as well, but they claim in this link that there are no fossile fuels involved...

http://www.energymanagertoday.com/hybrid-generator-creates-solar-energy-compact-footprint-0111325/

The JouleBox Hybrid Generator, which has been certified by Underwriter’s Laboratory, delivers electricity without any fossil-fuel sources. ECO-GEN says a 20 MW JouleBox uses less than 55,000 square feet versus a comparable solar farm that would need more than 600 acres.

 

[anorlunda]

Their website says that their 10 KW unit generates 87,600 KWh per year. That means that the sun must shine with max intensity 24 hours per day x 365 days per year. That claim is really stupid.

Lots of municipalities are buying solar now. Contact some of them and ask about their experience, costs, benefits, and reccomendations. You don't need the world's advanced technology. Average ordinary solar technology is very good nowadays.

 

[rbelli1]

I found this:

http://www.slideshare.net/PaulWeis1/joule-box-distributed-generation-3englishv2

It indicates that they have connected the output of a blower (manufactured wind) to a turbine of some sort. This is shown in one of the pictures. This arrangement makes no sense. This nonsensical conversion is also described but not pictured in the PDF berkeman posted.

BoB

 

[Alaskajoe]

Welcome to PF!

I'm moving this to electrical engineering...

Who, exactly, was pushing it?

Just a random person in the audience? In either case, good instinct, because if it were, it would violate the laws of physics.

Well, my take is this:

1. The website is really poor. If this is a real product, it doesn't look like one. Where are the details of the performance? Requirements? Case studies?
2. The website doesn't imply to me overunity, but the details are so thin it is tough to be certain. It says "turbine" in several places, so that implies to me that it is a natural gas turbine powered generator. If that's what it is (with a tiny solar panel added to produce an insignificant amount of additional power), then it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but they don't tend to be economical except in specialized applications. In either case, you'd need specific details of the system and its operation and an economic analysis before you would even start considering buying one. For now, you have virtually nothing to go on.

Thank you for the quick response.

The "who" was a guy who worked in distribution for the company. He has “cashed in his 401k, devoted his life to clean energy, flew around the world looking at various inventions ect.” A lot of “I really believe in this product”. However, there are currently no systems in operation at this moment. The push was: this town has a chance to be the first! Somewhat suspect.

Yeah it was just a random person in the audience. I know how that reads but, there is a small town factor, we have about 600 year round residents, the comment came from the guy that does a lot of engineering and various welding projects around town. I doubt there is a person in town with any major education in the realm of physics.

I’m not on the council, just a concerned citizen who thought asking some others who are educated in the area might be a good idea. I have no funding for a study but over the years I have come to this site to learn about a number of topics that interest me. I have always found the information here to be of use. I will try to find more information provided around town and come back with anything new.

Side note- I believe there is a presentation on the new tech in LA, California and/or Las Vegas, Nevada in the next couple of months. The push to “do this now! Be the first!” was a little strong for my tastes.

When we asked for the basics it consistently came back to the magnets and how they are arranged on the motor. There are a few videos on youtube too I think, However in rural Alaska I am limited to satellite internet and the service is so bad right now that I cannot open a youtube page to even forward the link.

I hope this helped.

Alaskajoe

 

[russ_watters]

Fair enough - thanks for everyone's efforts in researching this. It sounds like the bottom line is that it is supposed to be a solar panel driving a fan, driving a wind turbine, to multiply power. That makes it overunity, a violation of the laws of physics, a scam, and a topic inappropriate for PF. Alaskajoe, I hope we helped.

Thread locked.

 

[Alaskajoe]

Their website says that their 10 KW unit generates 87,600 KWh per year. That means that the sun must shine with max intensity 24 hours per day x 365 days per year. That claim is really stupid.

Lots of municipalities are buying solar now. Contact some of them and ask about their experience, costs, benefits, and reccomendations. You don't need the world's advanced technology. Average ordinary solar technology is very good nowadays.

interesting point there on the solar! Thank you for that. I'm not sure the solar aspect would work here. My community averages about 240 days of percipitation a year, leaving roughly 120 days for cloud coverage haha! We don't get a lot of sun.

 

[russ_watters]

Hi Alaskajoe - you got that in before I locked the thread. No worries, but if you would like to discuss some legitimate alternative options for powering your town, you can feel free to start a new thread. And if you have any questions regarding how our policy applies to this thread, you can PM me.