Very stupid question about Wigner's Theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Wigner's representation theorem, particularly its implications for transformations in a one-dimensional Hilbert space. Participants explore the nature of unitary and antiunitary transformations and their relationship to the identity transformation in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that Wigner's theorem states any invertible transformation between rays of a Hilbert space that preserves transition probabilities can be implemented by a unitary or antiunitary transformation.
  • Another participant questions how complex conjugation can be considered equivalent to the identity transformation, suggesting that in a one-dimensional Hilbert space, all transformations may effectively be identity transformations.
  • A later reply clarifies that while the transformations differ in a vector space context, they coincide in a projective space of rays, depending on the definition adopted.
  • One participant notes that in a one-dimensional Hilbert space, there are two rays, and discusses the conditions under which transformations induce the identity on rays.
  • Another participant emphasizes that unitary and antiunitary transformations must be distinct, suggesting a contradiction in the earlier claims.
  • One participant corrects the initial assertion about the theorem, stating it applies to Hilbert spaces of dimension at least two.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of Wigner's theorem and the nature of transformations in one-dimensional Hilbert spaces. There is no consensus on the implications of the theorem or the equivalence of the transformations discussed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the application of Wigner's theorem to one-dimensional Hilbert spaces and the definitions of rays and transformations. Participants rely on varying interpretations of these concepts.

Petr Mugver
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Wigner's representation theorem says that any invertible transformation between rays of a Hilbert space that preserves transition probabilities can be implemented by a transformation on the Hilbert space itself, which is either unitary or antiunitary, depending on the particular transformation considered, right?

For example, you can find in any QM book that almost all symmetries are represented by linear operators, the only significant exception being time inversion, right?

I present here the most trivial example I can imagine: a one-dimensional Hilbert space. The two complex function of complex variable

f(z)=z\qquad\textrm{and}\qquad g(z)=z^*

are, respectively, unitary and antiunitary, and they both induce the same transformation between rays of the Hilbert space H=\mathbb{C}, the identity transformation.

I know the solution of this apparent paradox should be easy, but I really can't see it! I know the proof of the theorem, and it doesn't help!

Any hint woukd be appreciated.
 
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Petr Mugver said:
I present here the most trivial example I can imagine: a one-dimensional Hilbert space. The two complex function of complex variable

f(z)=z\qquad\textrm{and}\qquad g(z)=z^*

are, respectively, unitary and antiunitary, and they both induce the same transformation between rays of the Hilbert space H=\mathbb{C}, the identity transformation.

I don't understand your example. How is the operation of complex conjugation
equivalent to the identity transformation? If you're saying the z (a complex number) is
a complex multiple of z*, then effectively there's only one state (ray), and all (invertible)
transformations are the identity transformation. The transformations are different if
the Hilbert space is considered as a vector space, but coincide if we revert to a projective
space of rays.

Wigner's theorem doesn't say (iirc) that the unitary and antiunitary transformations
must be distinct for every possible type of Hilbert space.

Maybe try a slightly less trivial example of a 2D Hilbert space?
 
strangerep said:
I don't understand your example. How is the operation of complex conjugation
equivalent to the identity transformation? If you're saying the z (a complex number) is
a complex multiple of z*, then effectively there's only one state (ray), and all (invertible)
transformations are the identity transformation. The transformations are different if
the Hilbert space is considered as a vector space, but coincide if we revert to a projective
space of rays.

Yes, using the definition of rays, the two transformations coincide (you have to consider the Hilbert space as a space on complex numbers, but that's what you usually do in QM). In a one-dimensional Hilbert space there are actually two rays, because (but this probably depends on the definition you adopt) z=0 is a ray all alone. Not only the invertible transformations induce the identity on rays, it is sufficient, for example, that f(0)=0 and that f(z) is different from zero for z different from zero (you can find horrible functions that belong to this class!) and the induced map will be the identity anyway!

strangerep said:
Wigner's theorem doesn't say (iirc) that the unitary and antiunitary transformations
must be distinct for every possible type of Hilbert space.

Well, if a transformation is unitary, then it can't be antiunitary and vice versa...so I suppose they must be different!
 
Petr Mugver said:
Wigner's representation theorem says that any invertible transformation between rays of a Hilbert space that preserves transition probabilities can be implemented by a transformation on the Hilbert space itself, which is either unitary or antiunitary, depending on the particular transformation considered, right?d.

No. Should be: "of a Hilbert space of dimension at least two."
 
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