Wanted: Brainstorming Partner for Permanent Global Blackout

[CrackerMcGinger]

Wow. That's sad.

 

[CrackerMcGinger]

But is it also possible that the flare could cause a small ice age?

 

[DHF]

Well ultimatly I don't know if he will go with a flare because he did mention that he wanted the effect to be perment. The effects of a flare would be brief.
A flare is a good device for any number of other things in a book. Flares at low levels can temporarily disrupt communications but sufficiently powerful flares can disrupt the atmosphere itself. Any such flare would also slam a tremendous amount of radiation into the planet and we would probably be looking at mass extinctions so its a good plot device if you want a real post world feeling.

As to causing an ice age, I am not a planetary scientist so I don't know for sure but I imagine if the atmosphere was significantly disturbed, its possible.

 

[CrackerMcGinger]

Well ultimatly I don't know if he will go with a flare because he did mention that he wanted the effect to be perment. The effects of a flare would be brief.
A flare is a good device for any number of other things in a book. Flares at low levels can temporarily disrupt communications but sufficiently powerful flares can disrupt the atmosphere itself. Any such flare would also slam a tremendous amount of radiation into the planet and we would probably be looking at mass extinctions so its a good plot device if you want a real post world feeling.

As to causing an ice age, I am not a planetary scientist so I don't know for sure but I imagine if the atmosphere was significantly disturbed, its possible.

the shortest ice age lasted around 150 years, so the flare idea is possible, and an extremily powerful flare thatr misses the planet could still be powerfull enough to cause a severe world wide emp.

 

[DHF]

well if the flare is that powerful, its not just the EMP that is hitting us, tons of lethal radiation would as well. the physical pop of flame that you typically see images of would never come anywhere near our orbit but the burst of radiation would spread out in a fairly wide path. If it was powerful enough to cause the effects we are talking about, the ice age would salt on the wound because that would be on top a devastating blow not only to human population but life across the entire biosphere.

I think however that this is quite different then what the Original poster was looking for.

 

[CrackerMcGinger]

well if the flare is that powerful, its not just the EMP that is hitting us, tons of lethal radiation would as well. the physical pop of flame that you typically see images of would never come anywhere near our orbit but the burst of radiation would spread out in a fairly wide path. If it was powerful enough to cause the effects we are talking about, the ice age would salt on the wound because that would be on top a devastating blow not only to human population but life across the entire biosphere.

I think however that this is quite different then what the Original poster was looking for.

but 150 years later most of the planet not directly hit by the radiation would be almost okay(as in habitable) right?

 

[DHF]

It is hard to predict but I think life would look very different. For starters, this is unlikely to happen with our own star Sol is pretty stable but what we are talking about is possible from another star, if say a supernova happened in a nearby star system or if we were hit by a gama ray burst from a nearby black hole. again the likelihood of any of these events is slim because there are no super massive stars likely to go nova that are that close to us nor are they any GRB within striking distance.

IF such a thing did hit us, it would effect whatever side of the planet was facing the burst so you are talking millions of casualties, maybe billions as well as mass extinctions of animal, insect and sea life. Bacteria would also be effected. while the burst might not directly effect life on the opposite side of the planet, the ramifications would be massive as our atmosphere and ecosystem would be crippled. Life might survive, be habitable as you ask but it is not a world I would want to live in, even if there was no ice age following it. A burst like that and you are really talking about taking a blowtorch to the atmosphere so I would worry less about nuclear winters and more about hoping we can breath the air when its all over.

 

[Caitriona]

... the ice age would salt on the wound because that would be on top a devastating blow not only to human population but life across the entire biosphere.

I think however that this is quite different then what the Original poster was looking for.

Yes, you are correct, I definitely need the planet to be habitable and - aside from a little global warming and slight evolutionary changes and maybe an extinct species or two - quite the same as we know it today.
I do think that the world population would be greatly reduced by a lack of electricity (starvation resulting from less effective food production being the main problem, but of course chaos and confusion right after the blackout would cost a few lives too as well as exposure, war etc.) So yes, I will not be dealing with a 7 billion population, but maybe 1 billion people and there will be next to no global information network (though we're maybe not quite back to using carrier pigeons).

I love all the different suggestions because that will give me the opportunity to let different characters have different opinions as to what happened.

As a side note I was quite surprised to learn that there are still actually people out there using the internet who haven't been at the receiving end of a nigeria spam attempt. That thing has been around for at least 15 years, I got my first one back when I was still in school

 

[DHF]

I think I got my first Nigerian Princess Scam in 99 maybe, maybe 97. It amazes me that they are still around in one form or another.

As to the story, I can see famine and conflict taking out a lot of people in the early days, As we pointed out earlier, no one will really know what happened and I am sure nations will be quick to blame each other. Without advanced infrastructure though I think famine will claim more then murder. Eventually things will settle and humanity will adapt, we are good at that. As for global communication, I think its possible as the postal services will thrive in the absence of phones and email. even back in the 19th century you could communicate between countries, the only difference is that those communications will take weeks or months. Communications within countries will be relatively easy if you are giving the character motor transport. Mind you most cars today will need to be scrapped or severely refitted as they are glutted with electronics and will not run without power.

 

[Caitriona]

As for global communication, I think its possible as the postal services will thrive in the absence of phones and email. even back in the 19th century you could communicate between countries, the only difference is that those communications will take weeks or months. Communications within countries will be relatively easy if you are giving the character motor transport. Mind you most cars today will need to be scrapped or severely refitted as they are glutted with electronics and will not run without power.

Yep, there will be postal service, but like you said, it will take days, weeks and months for mail to be delivered, depending on the distance it's sent. I'm also thinking engines will be used by rich people and some parts of the industry and maybe the government, so yes, mail can be transported by train or steam boat or even by trucks (though I think that might not be very cost effective), but the average person may not really have a car, as it would be quite expensive to build and maintain, right? Obtaining fuel alone would be a costly endeavour. Horses and carriages would be far more convenient and cost effective for "normal people".

 

[Loren]

Yep, there will be postal service, but like you said, it will take days, weeks and months for mail to be delivered, depending on the distance it's sent. I'm also thinking engines will be used by rich people and some parts of the industry and maybe the government, so yes, mail can be transported by train or steam boat or even by trucks (though I think that might not be very cost effective), but the average person may not really have a car, as it would be quite expensive to build and maintain, right? Obtaining fuel alone would be a costly endeavour. Horses and carriages would be far more convenient and cost effective for "normal people".

That could be an improvement for some mail in the US.

 

[Caitriona]

That could be an improvement for some mail in the US.

*lol* but since this story is not set in the US, let's just assume postal service would be slightly for the worse compared to today

 

[Loren]

*lol* but since this story is not set in the US, let's just assume postal service would be slightly for the worse compared to today

Lucky bast@&^!

 

[DHF]

where is the story taking place?

 

[Caitriona]

great britain

 

[DHF]

Nice. Used to live there, about 20 years ago.

 

[CrackerMcGinger]

Well, you could always go with a classic idea, the end of world world 3 destroyng civilization, but having enough people surviving to rebuild after decades. Not that original, but it still has some true facts.

 

[DrStupid]

I'm not a physicist and my research so far only led me to doomsday-preppers who believe a global blackout might happen at some point but most certainly wouldn't be permanent. Well, I need it to be permanent.

How about a series of global Carrington events caused by heavy solar storms after Sun suddenly changed it's activity? The first event would destroy the current technical civilization and the fall-out from hundreds of bursting and burning nuclear power plants and reprocessing facilities would turn a significant part of the industrial infrastructure into forbidden areas. Even if mankind manage to stop the following wars, hunger crisis and the possible free fall into stone age it would be hard work reestablish a new technical civilization. If the new start suffers another setback from additional solar storms the engineers would need to look for ways to avoid this problem. One solution would be EMP protection but another - more radical - option would be avoiding electricity at all. The last could be supported by political or pseudo-religious forces who believe that using electricity was the root of all evil.

 

[Caitriona]

Carrington events...will have to google that

 

[Loren]

There's another solution.

If a religious cult were to gain enough power, particularly if preceded by a man-made or natural disaster, they could hold society in check at some primitive level.

Even Dune had its Butlerian Jihad.

Revelation Space had its Inhibitors. Something similar might pound a society back to pre-technology days (for whatever reason) and every time they gained technology back that society would just get beat down again. Over time such a society might give up trying to advance—at least for long periods of time.

 

[Caitriona]

I have been thinking about that whole "people are forced back into the stone age by a cult" thing before, but that is not the road I will pick for this story. It doesn't fit my characters at all. But thank you for mentioning it!

 

[DHF]

And frankly Fallout has already cornered that market.

 

[Loren]

I have been thinking about that whole "people are forced back into the stone age by a cult" thing before, but that is not the road I will pick for this story. It doesn't fit my characters at all. But thank you for mentioning it!

Well there is always that outside inhibiting force.

 

[newjerseyrunner]

I'd combine two of the ideas that I've seen so far. The sun throws a fit and wipes out our current electrical infrastructure, which causes large-scale wars which destroy most of the non-electrical infrastructure. Then after that, the church condemns the lifestyle of old, citing it's downfall as evidence that god was angry about the technology. I would read up on the aftermath of the fall of the classical world in Europe. You could even have a figurehead that the religion blames: a modern day Nero. Even if some people work hard to maintain some stability, the masses act on fear. A person is smart, people are stupid.

 

[Caitriona]

I'm afraid as a total non-believer myself I lack the insight to write about anything that will involve a lot of religion. I simply don't have the ability to grasp the whole concept of belief in a higher power. If I were to write such a thing, it would ultimate turn out to be a statement against religion, no matter how much effort I would put into it to treat the whole topic respectfully and with empathy. It is just not something I can comprehend very well, which is why I abandoned that idea very early on and instead started looking for a strictly scientific explanation.

 

[CrackerMcGinger]

I'm afraid as a total non-believer myself I lack the insight to write about anything that will involve a lot of religion. I simply don't have the ability to grasp the whole concept of belief in a higher power. If I were to write such a thing, it would ultimate turn out to be a statement against religion, no matter how much effort I would put into it to treat the whole topic respectfully and with empathy. It is just not something I can comprehend very well, which is why I abandoned that idea very early on and instead started looking for a strictly scientific explanation.

Not really, all religion really is is a way to grasp reality without thinking everything is a coincidence, and those that think you are telling a story opposing religion are short sided or don't care to think from another point of view. All someone really needs to grasp religion even if they do not believe is an ability to broaden their perspective on things.

 

[DrStupid]

I'm afraid as a total non-believer myself I lack the insight to write about anything that will involve a lot of religion.

You don't need a religion. Ideology would be sufficient.
A nice option could be a situation where a minority profits from keeping electricity away from the public (but use themselves).

 

[DHF]

Not sure a religious or ideological ban would suffice for what the OP is asking. He/She asked for a world where technology was permanently disabled. If you had an ideology rise up that banned technology, many would follow but there are a great many that would thumb their nose at the idea and start to rebuild. Even if half the world is wiped out in the aftermath and 90% of the survivors believe in this anti technology ideology... that still leaves hundreds of millions of people world wide that would try to pick up where the world left off before the disaster.

 

[tobyr65]

Your loss of electricity is completely plausible. But not with your timeline. Regarding polarity shift: There is no evidence that a weakened magnetic field would result in a doomsday for Earth. During past polarity flips there were no mass extinctions or evidence of radiation damage. Researchers think power grids and communication systems would be most at risk. Unfortunately this is a millennia problem and your protagonist wouldn't be able to fix it. But maybe you can use it to help create your loss of power