War may be criminal - GOP Sen Smith

  1. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,539
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    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/16197847.htm

    ...just another reason I love Oregon!

    If he keeps talking like that, I might vote for him again. I hope this is just the first of many GOP leaders to come out given cover by the Iraq panel's report. In spite of the damage to this nation that impeachment and prosecution of Bush and Rummy would bring, I believe this to be imperative to the U.S. political system's survival. This long and relentless assault by Bush on the constitution and on the trust of the American people and its leaders, cannot go unaswered.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  2. jcsd
  3. The first quarter of 2007 should prove very interesting.

    My guess is that by Easter there will be plenty of incumbent R's ready to throw what will be left of this administration under a bus. As the investigations begin, the few rats left after the midterm "thumping" will be jumping from the burning ship.

    The signs are clear that the administration hasn't a clue about what to do. The Bush administration is in it's "last throes, if you will".
     
  4. All this is a played drama IMHO. :smile:

    The objective of the US invasion in Iraq was to bring the country back a few decades and make it harmless.

    Now that that has been accomplished there is no need for the US to stay in, so now it is prime time for the opportunistic politicians to benefit from the inevitable pullout.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  5. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,539
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    If that was the case we could have left in April 2003.

    Of course at $2+ billion per week [war machine] and nearly 3000 [US] dead and 20,000 wounded, what the hell. When we leave, we leave. No rush.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  6. turbo

    turbo 7,366
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    So far, we have been fighting to prevent another 9/11, to take away Iraq's WMDs, to prevent them from refining yellowcake from Niger, to hit the terrorists on their home turf so we don't have to fight them here, to spread democracy, etc, etc. All lies. This administration lied us into a war to enrich their sponsors and the Baker commission is trying to finish the job with its "all or nothing" solution. Very few people seem to have noticed that one of the conditions in that report is the privatization of Iraq's oil industry - a thing very near and dear to the Bushies.
     
  7. Astronuc

    Staff: Mentor

    I don't understand the 'bring the country back a few decades'. The sanctions during the 90's and early 00's certainly reduced the quality of life and the deterioration of infrastructure was significant.

    Rather than harmless, Iraq has more terrorists now than it did before the US invasion. And the diversion of US military from Afghanistan to Iraq enabled bin Laden, al Qaida and Taliban to escape and recover in Pakistan!

    Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, with some help from Tenet and others in the Bush administration have done so much to undermine the security of the US its not funny. It is a tragedy/catastrophe.

    Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are seemingly guilty of criminal negligence, if not deliberate criminal acts. It would not surprise if Cheney and Rumsfeld have managed to siphon off US tax money into personal offshore accounts, and I think they should be investigated with regard to their deliberate acts of corruption.
     
  8. those numbers refer to only soldiers, not american citizens on private contract. i expect there are more dead and wounded among the american contracters aswell
     
  9. The real tragedy is dead Iraqis. Those numbers are staggering. Just like with Vietnam however, the focus is always on Americans killed, which seems to always be the lower number by orders of magnitude.

    Iraq
    American soldiers killed 3000

    Iraqis killed 400,000 - 800,000

    Vietnam

    Americans soldiers killed 60,000

    Vietnamese killed 3 million

    As tragic as the American deaths are, the real tragedy is what is happening to the people who live in Iraq. And now the whole region could become completely destabilized because of the narcissistic arrogance of this administration!
     
  10. Astronuc

    Staff: Mentor

    I've been reading James Risen's book "State of War" in which he mentions that the US military has been ignoring the booming opium and heroin trade in Afghanistan. Afghanistan has apparently become a major narco-state - under the noses of the Bush administration. This is especially significant since it appears that money from the sale of the drug trade may be going to support Taliban and al Qaida.

    This certainly raises questions about the Bush administration's so-called 'War on Terror'.

    Afghanistan Opium Crop Sets Record
    U.S.-Backed Efforts At Eradication Fail

    Just another failure by the Bush administration.
     
  11. I don't mean to come across as a cynic, but you omitted some very important information.

    Here's what you didn't quote:
    You painted a picture of an Afghanistan where a resurgent opium trade somehow demonstrates a failure of the Bush administration. Within the same article you quoted, however, is information (above) that suggests the opium trade is the lesser of two evils. You also said that the funneling of drug money to al Qaida and the Taliban "raises questions" about the War on Terror. Again, there is a sentence from the same article that contradicts alarmist rhetoric about the Taliban:
     
  12. BobG

    BobG 2,368
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    Suggesting it has become a major narco-state under the noses of the Bush administration is a little misleading. Afghanistan has been a major narco-state for a long time.

    It is another failure by the Bush administration, but expecting success was naive, at best, and maybe kind of stupid. Surely, our past experience in South America doesn't supply much reason for optimism about our efforts in curbing the Afghanistan drug problem.
     
  13. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,539
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    Real tough; so we buy them off. The entire yearly revenues for the drug trade are what we spend in a week in Iraq. The fact that this obvious solution is not implemented raises serious questions about motive.

    Something else about Smith's comments: He could have used many words other than "criminal" and still played the politics. Politically speaking, there is no reason why he needed to say "criminal".
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  14. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,539
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    However, Afghanistan is allegedly under US control now.
     
  15. loseyourname

    loseyourname 3,632
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    Well, according to the CIA factbook, one of the world's major producers of marijuana, methamphetamine, hallucinogens, and one of the major money-laundering centers, has been under US control since 1776.
     
  16. Astronuc

    Staff: Mentor

    Kind of like the US military invasion and occupation of Iraq feeds the instability there. :rolleyes:

    Only because it has been allowed to become a problem.

    Well - its certainly not a simple matter. There were those in the US Dept of State who were adamant about not supporting the drug trade - but there were those in the Bush administration who see it as necessary in order to provide stability - i.e. the US has to work with organized crime to preserve stability. In the end, this is self-defeating as history has demonstrated and will demonstrate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2006
  17. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,539
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    First of all, of those, only marijauna requires large, open, sunny fields that are easily destroyed.
    Next:
    Afghanistan
    Area - comparative:
    slightly smaller than Texas

    Population:
    31,056,997

    Technological state:
    Post stone-age

    Under US military control.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2006
  18. Exactly how do you convince farmers to abandon a crop which is 12 times as profitable as the alternatives?
    "Buying off" opium farmers does not render opium farming unprofitable.
     
  19. Yes and strategically that is a good thing for those prefer to keep Iraq in shambles!

    I suppose I am left guessing Astronuc. :confused:
    I presume you are a very intelligent person, but when it comes to politics I think that you present a very naive picture. Why is that? :smile:

    You perhaps cannot differentiate the importance between a country's military power and the "threat" of a having dissatisfied people living in it?
    Has the thought that there could be people who want to disable all military power of Muslim states in the Middle East ever entered your mind?
     
  20. Astronuc

    Staff: Mentor

    I was reflecting on the fact that there are more terrorists in Iraq now than before the US invasion, and meanwhile, the Taliban and al Qaida have recovered from their setback in Afghanistan and have actually grown in strength.

    Left guessing about what? I was reflecting on the failure of Bush's policies, and now there is plenty of evidence, finally out in the open for the public to evaluate, to show how incompetent and negligent, and even criminal Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice et al have been.

    Bush and his Replican cohorts make a lot of noise about freedom and democracy, when in reality they have undermined freedom and democracy.

    They make a lot of noise about law and order, or if the country does elects the Democrats, that is a vote for the terrorists. However, Bush's policies have aided the terrorists, and allowing the narco-traffic in Afghanistan has provided financial resouces to al Qaida and Taliban.

    It is clear that the Bush administration allows/accepts/enables criminal activity when it suits their purposes!

    Where is the evidence for such an assertion? To what country is one referring?

    I imagine that there are those in the Bush administration who fantansize about such things. Bush and members of his administration have excelled in delusional thinking and denial of reality.
     
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