Wasn't the universe more disordered in the past?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between temperature, entropy, and the second law of thermodynamics, particularly in the context of the universe's past and future states. Participants explore concepts of disorder and chaos as they relate to thermodynamic principles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that a hotter universe in the past implies greater chaos and disorder, questioning how this aligns with the second law of thermodynamics.
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between temperature (T) and entropy (S), suggesting a mathematical approach to demonstrate changes in entropy over time.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the conceptual understanding of entropy as disorder, noting that the universe's future may be less chaotic as it approaches absolute zero.
  • Another participant clarifies that temperature and entropy are different concepts, implying that confusion may arise from conflating the two.
  • One participant argues that the universe will never reach absolute zero due to the Uncertainty Principle and notes that the early universe was more uniform than it is today.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of entropy and its relationship to temperature and disorder. There is no consensus on the implications of these concepts for the universe's past and future states.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the mathematical aspects of entropy changes over time, and there are differing interpretations of the implications of the second law of thermodynamics.

zeromodz
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If the universe was hotter in the past, it was more chaotic and disordered with all the molecules and particles colliding with each other. How does this correspond to the second law of thermodynamics where things are supposed to get more chaotic as the time moves on, not backwards?
 
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T and S are different quantities. Can you calculate dS/dt and show it is negative?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
T and S are different quantities. Can you calculate dS/dt and show it is negative?

Yeah, mathematically what your saying makes sense. However, I don't understand it conceptually. Entropy is supposed to mean disorder and chaos. The future of the universe going to end with a whimper, not a bang. Its going to be anything but chaotic with the temperature becoming absolute zero.
 
You are confusing temperature with entropy.
 
First, the universe will never reach absolute zero, that violates the Uncertainty Principle. Second, at the early stages, the universe was far more uniform than it is today and will be in the future. At the beginning, it was so hot that even all of the forces were identical.
 

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