- #1
Outrageous
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During winter why not all the water molecules on the water surface that have 4°C go deep under the water?
Water at 4 degree Celcius has maximum density
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SUMMARY
Water at 4°C exhibits maximum density, which is crucial for understanding the behavior of lakes and ponds during winter. In a frozen-over pond, the warmest water is typically found at the bottom, maintaining a temperature of 4°C due to heat loss primarily from the surface. While this principle generally holds, variations can occur under specific conditions, such as lack of heat from below. In contrast, ocean water behaves differently, with deep water temperatures ranging from 0 to 3°C due to salinity and pressure effects, which alter the density characteristics compared to fresh water.
PREREQUISITES- Understanding of water density and temperature relationships
- Basic knowledge of thermodynamics and heat transfer
- Familiarity with the concept of salinity and its effects on water properties
- Awareness of the anomalous behavior of water compared to other substances
- Research the thermodynamic properties of water at varying temperatures
- Explore the effects of salinity on the freezing point of seawater
- Study the principles of buoyancy and density in relation to icebergs
- Investigate the impact of pressure on water density in deep ocean environments
Students, environmental scientists, and anyone interested in aquatic ecosystems and the physical properties of water, particularly in relation to temperature and density variations.
- #2
K^2
Science Advisor
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They basically do. Water at the bottom of the frozen-over pond will be at about 4°C. That's also why lakes freeze starting from the top.
- #3
Outrageous
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K^2 said:
Can I say in a frozen-over pond, the highest temperature of the water will be 4 °C which is at the bottom?
- #4
K^2
Science Advisor
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In practice, almost always, but it isn't necessarily true under all conditions. Certainly, there cannot be any water warmer than that. If there is, it will rise to the top, until it either meets colder water and cools, or until it gets to the very top and meets ice, in which case it will melt some ice and cool down. So in equilibrium, the warmest water you can have is 4°C.
However, all water in the pond could be colder than 4°C. That really should only happen right before the entire thickness of water freezes through, because while there is still a lot of water, the heat is lost only from the surface, and whatever little heat there is coming from the ground will keep the bottom at these 4°C. But if for whatever reason there is no heat from bellow, it could, in principle, be colder.
But certainly, you could say that there is no water warmer than 4°C, and whatever temperature the warmest water is, it is at the bottom.
However, all water in the pond could be colder than 4°C. That really should only happen right before the entire thickness of water freezes through, because while there is still a lot of water, the heat is lost only from the surface, and whatever little heat there is coming from the ground will keep the bottom at these 4°C. But if for whatever reason there is no heat from bellow, it could, in principle, be colder.
But certainly, you could say that there is no water warmer than 4°C, and whatever temperature the warmest water is, it is at the bottom.
- #5
Outrageous
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Thank you very much
- #6
Borek
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Note in the ocean things get slightly different - deep ocean water is colder, usually between 0 and 3°C.
- #7
Outrageous
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Borek said:
Is that because there is high concentration of salt? Since 3°C is lower than 4°C , why not lower than 0 ?
- #8
Borek
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I believe it is a combination of salinity and high pressure that changes water properties. Perhaps there is more to it, I don't know details. Sorry.
- #9
K^2
Science Advisor
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At high pressure, the maximum density will certainly be at a lower temperature, so it's probably a factor. But I don't know how significant that would be or how the salt will play into it.
- #10
Outrageous
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Thank you guys
- #11
Studiot
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Do not try to apply the 'anomalous' density curve for pure (fresh) water to sea water.
For sea water the density continues to increase as temperature decreases all the way below zero (C) to the freezing point. There is no anomalous maximum.
Of course the actual value of freezing point depends on the salinity, as Borek said.
The reason icebergs float is tha they contain a large quantity of entrained air.
For sea water the density continues to increase as temperature decreases all the way below zero (C) to the freezing point. There is no anomalous maximum.
Of course the actual value of freezing point depends on the salinity, as Borek said.
The reason icebergs float is tha they contain a large quantity of entrained air.
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