Water volume, flow and speed question.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and functionality of a water feature, specifically focusing on the relationship between water volume, flow rate, pressure, and their effects on a water wheel and generator setup. Participants explore theoretical calculations and practical implications related to pump specifications and water dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates that a flow rate of 31.8 L/min would correspond to a speed of approximately 112.21483 m/min, based on the volume of water in a pipe.
  • Another participant agrees with the calculation and suggests that the wheel speed would be similar, assuming no resistance affects it.
  • There is a discussion about whether power generation is influenced more by water volume flow or pressure, with some stating that both factors contribute to power output.
  • Concerns are raised about the impact of pipe size on flow and pressure, with a suggestion that higher velocity could lead to increased wheel speed, contingent on the absence of resistance.
  • Participants discuss the efficiency of pumps and turbines, noting that approximately 50% efficiency is typical for power generation from water flow.
  • A later post introduces a comparison question regarding the velocity of two different pump outputs, one delivering 31.8 L/min at 1 bar and another at 6.5 L/min at 3.5 bar, seeking clarification on how to determine which has a higher velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express some agreement on the calculations and principles discussed, but there are also uncertainties regarding the effects of different pump specifications and the relationship between flow rate, pressure, and power generation. The comparison of pump outputs remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the implications of different pump configurations on velocity and power generation, and there are assumptions regarding resistance and efficiency that are not explicitly defined.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in DIY water features, small-scale power generation, or fluid dynamics may find this discussion relevant.

rodnjo
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Hi,
First I would like to apologise for my lack of understanding in this area, this is all new for me.

I am designing a water feature (hopefully a working one).
I have a pump that will deliver 31.8 L/min through a 19mm pipe at 1 bar.

If 31.8 litre of water = 31,800 cm³ and if
the volume of pipe to hold 31,800 cm³ would need to be 112.215 metres long.
r .95² x π = 2.83385 cm³
31,800 cm³ ÷ 2.83385 cm³ = 11,221.483 cm
11,221.483 cm ÷ 100 = 112.21483 metres

Q. Does this mean that 31.8 L/min would be equivalent to the speed of 112.21483 m/min.

Q. If I had the pipe from the pump (obviously not 112 metres long) flowing on to a 20 cm diameter water wheel, would the wheel speed be approximately 112.21483 m/min.

Q. Is it the volume of water flow or the pressure that generates the power.
Would a larger pipe providing more volume but less pressure increase the wheel speed or
Would it be a smaller pipe providing less volume but a higher pressure.

Q. Is it possible to calculate the Horse Power or Kilowatts generated by the water flow or pressure on the wheel.

Thank you in advance.
 
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Welcome to PF!
rodnjo said:
Q. Does this mean that 31.8 L/min would be equivalent to the speed of 112.21483 m/min.
I didn't check your math, but the logic looked right. So yes.
Q. If I had the pipe from the pump (obviously not 112 metres long) flowing on to a 20 cm diameter water wheel, would the wheel speed be approximately 112.21483 m/min.
Yes, assuming there wasn't any resistance on it to slow it down.
Q. Is it the volume of water flow or the pressure that generates the power.
Both. Power is pressure times flow rate.
Would a larger pipe providing more volume but less pressure increase the wheel speed or
Would it be a smaller pipe providing less volume but a higher pressure.
Higher velocity means more wheel speed, but only if there isn't any resistance on the wheel. Once you attach a generator to it, all this goes out the window. But...
Q. Is it possible to calculate the Horse Power or Kilowatts generated by the water flow or pressure on the wheel.
A good pump or turbine is about 50% efficient, so the power you can generate from a setup like this would be about half of the power of the pump used to push the water (unless there are other losses...). That begs the question: why would you want to do such a thing?
 
Its only for a water feature in a garden setting, I was intending to have a small generator connected to the wheel to power a few 12v low watt garden lights with the generator in a small house and the wheel on the side. I know there is other ways to achieve this, I am not trying to save power it was for more of a novelty type scaled down generator house look. So you switch on the pump and the wheel and generator power the lighting around the water feature.

The submersible water pump only uses 5 Amps so its not to bad.

Thank you very much for your reply, a least I know I am sort of on the right track.

Regards
 
Last edited:
Another question regarding the above post.

Which would have the higher velocity.
A pump delivering 31.8 l/min at 1 bar or

A pump delivering 6.5 l/min at 3.5 bar

or if you can tell me have to work this out I will.
 

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