Water - Where do you think it came from?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the origins of water in the universe, particularly in relation to asteroids and the panspermia theory. Participants explore the implications of water's presence on asteroids for theories of life's emergence and the chemical processes involved in water formation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the discovery of water on asteroids may lend support to the panspermia theory, which posits that life could be distributed throughout the universe via space dust, meteoroids, and comets.
  • Others challenge the connection between water and panspermia, questioning the logic of linking the two concepts directly.
  • It is noted that water is one of the most common molecules in the universe, found in gas and dust clouds, which raises questions about its ubiquity and implications for life.
  • One participant explains the formation of hydrogen and oxygen in the universe, detailing processes such as the CNO cycle and the triple alpha process, and how these elements contribute to water formation in interstellar gas clouds.
  • There is a discussion about the conditions necessary for life, with a viewpoint that all life is likely associated with water, and that if panspermia is valid, the reproductive elements (like cysts or spores) would require water to become active.
  • Another participant mentions that various simple molecules, including CH4, NH3, and OH2, are prevalent in the universe, but does not elaborate on their relevance to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between water and the panspermia theory, with no consensus reached on whether the presence of water on asteroids supports the theory or not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of water's ubiquity for the origins of life.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various scientific processes and theories related to the formation of water and the potential for life, but there are limitations in the assumptions made about the necessity of water for life and the implications of panspermia.

Kay Marie
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Astronomy has been a fascination of mine for many years. As they discuss water on asteroids, I'm curious to see what everyone thinks. Do you feel this gives merit to the panspermia theory?
 
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That's quite a leap of logic there. Where there's life (as we understand it) there's water but where there's water ?

https://www.space.com/9292-water-ice-common-asteroids-discovery-suggests.html

In this article, in addition to water they also found organic compounds on the asteroids and suggest that it could well have helped the Earth with life's nutrients.

There's also been some discussion on life emerging on planets without water though:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/new-theory-suggests-life-can-emerge-on-planets-without-1660643383
 
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Kay Marie said:
Astronomy has been a fascination of mine for many years. As they discuss water on asteroids, I'm curious to see what everyone thinks. Do you feel this gives merit to the panspermia theory?

Since hydrogen and oxygen are the first and third most abundant elements in the universe, it should not be surprising that water is ubiquitous. As @jedishrfu said, what does this have to do with panspermia?
 
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Indeed. Water is one of the most common molecules in the universe. It's everywhere, floating around is gas and dust clouds.
 
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Hydrogen came from the big bang. The universe cooled enough to form hydrogen atoms after 370,000 years.

Oxygen forms when carbon forms. Carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen cycle through the CNO cycle fusion process. The CNO cycle is the primary path for hydrogen to get burned into helium in large stars. Carbon forms in the triple alpha process. Some oxygen forms from helium burning at the same time the triple alpha process creates carbon. Both become available when stars explode or blow out planetary nebula.

Water forms when interstellar gas clouds cool. In the vacuum of space water transitions directly between vapor and solid. That is not a good environment for life.

All Earth life is associated with water and it is probable that all life everywhere is associated with water. If we find evidence for panspermia it is likely that the sperm(seed)/cyst/spore need water in order to become active. There is no need for the source of water to be the same as the source of the spores. A cyst can be embedded inside of a dry rocky chunk of asteroid. A foamy silica substance is more likely to enter an atmosphere with live samples. A icy snowball will melt/evaporate on reentry and tends to explode. Ideally you would want a heat shield like Apollo capsules or the space shuttle but it can be done with 99+% of the mass burning away. It does not need to be an efficient reentry vehicle. It could come in with millions of cysts. Only one needs to survive.
 
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3-solarsystems.jpg


CH4, NH3, OH2 are amongst the most common molecules in the universe
 

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