Way to measure density of a solution (beer/wine)

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    Density Measure
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for measuring the density of solutions, specifically in the context of beer and wine production. Participants explore various techniques for determining alcohol content and sugar concentration, comparing traditional methods with potential alternatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the "beer bug," a device that measures density by tracking the weight of a submerged buoy and calculates alcohol by volume (ABV) based on density changes during fermentation.
  • Another participant suggests using assays based on physical properties when chemical methods are impractical, and mentions the possibility of using a densimeter or refractive index for measuring density.
  • A different contribution highlights the use of a Brixometer or refractometer in industrial settings for measuring sugar content, while noting that traditional analog hydrometers are effective and affordable.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for CO2 bubbles to interfere with the "beer bug" measurements, suggesting adaptations using automotive flex-fuel sensors and peristaltic pumps.
  • Another participant proposes measuring electrical capacitance between conductive plates in the fluid, mentioning the dielectric constants of water and ethanol and the potential non-linearity in measurements due to their interaction in solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the best methods for measuring density and alcohol content, with no consensus reached on a single approach.

Contextual Notes

Some methods discussed may depend on specific conditions or assumptions, such as the presence of CO2 bubbles affecting measurements or the non-linearity of dielectric properties in solutions.

Pat8you
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This is a bit of a random project I am looking into. Recently a product was released called the beer bug. It measures the density of beer by tracking the weight of a submerged buoy. They calculate change in density based on changed in weight and then calculate % alcohol (ABV) from that.

Normally specific gravity readings are taken before and after fermentation with a hydrometer. As the sugar is consumed by the yeast it changes the density. This is how you can obtain ABV.

Both of these methods seem clunky and difficult to get a digital reading that you could track on an LED screen. Can anyone think of another way to measure density? Is there a way to measure alcohol content or sugar concentration directly?

Thanks
Pat
 
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Pat8you said:
a way to measure alcohol content or sugar concentration directly?
Assays based on physical properties are often used when chemical methods are "awkward."
Pat8you said:
another way to measure density?
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q="densimeter"
You might look at refractive index.
 
Pat8you said:
This is a bit of a random project I am looking into. Recently a product was released called the beer bug. It measures the density of beer by tracking the weight of a submerged buoy. They calculate change in density based on changed in weight and then calculate % alcohol (ABV) from that.

Normally specific gravity readings are taken before and after fermentation with a hydrometer. As the sugar is consumed by the yeast it changes the density. This is how you can obtain ABV.

Both of these methods seem clunky and difficult to get a digital reading that you could track on an LED screen. Can anyone think of another way to measure density? Is there a way to measure alcohol content or sugar concentration directly?

Thanks
Pat
In an industrial situation, you would use a Brixometer or refractometer to measure sugar content:

http://www.atago.net/USA/products.html

The plain old analog hydrometer is cheap and effective. You can find digital hydrometers, but some of these devices are quite expensive:

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/sbs/sbs-3500.htm
 
I'd be a little concerned that this "beer bug" might have a problem with CO2 bubbles sticking to it.
Perhaps an automotive flex-fuel sensor with a lab-type peristaltic (or aquarium) pump could be adapted:

http://www.haltech.com/flex-fuel-sensor-explained/
 
You might consider the electrical capacitance between two conductive plates in the fluid. Maybe you could use a flooded coaxial cell to eliminate external interference. Agitate the electrodes to remove CO2 bubbles.

Water has a dielectric constant of about 80, while pure ethanol is about 24.3 at 25 °C. There will be some slight non-linearity expected due to the interaction in solution between ethanol and water. A non-linearity may be in your favor. I think it is worth investigating.
 

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