What Additional Forces Might Influence the Motion of Particle P?

  • Thread starter Thread starter eurekameh
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Forces Particle
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying and analyzing the forces acting on a particle P in motion, particularly within a constrained environment such as a tube. Participants explore the equations of motion, the role of normal forces, and the potential influence of additional forces like centrifugal and Coriolis forces, while considering different reference frames and methods of analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the known forces acting on particle P, including its weight and two normal forces, questioning if there are additional forces to consider.
  • Another participant suggests that in a tight fit, the normal forces may not be equal and opposite, indicating that one could be larger depending on the particle's position.
  • A different approach involving Lagrangian mechanics is proposed by a participant, who expresses a preference for this method over others.
  • One participant mentions using the Transport Theorem to relate reference frames and describes the inertial position vector in terms of unit vectors.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of notation, particularly regarding the labeling of reference frames, with a suggestion to avoid using common symbols like S.
  • Additional forces such as centrifugal and Coriolis forces are introduced as potential influences on the particle's motion, particularly in a rotating coordinate system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the normal forces and their effects, with no consensus reached on whether they cancel out or vary based on position. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the complete set of forces acting on the particle.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential for missing assumptions about the fit of the particle within the tube and the implications of using different reference frames. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the application of Lagrangian mechanics and the effects of rotational dynamics.

eurekameh
Messages
209
Reaction score
0
241t3qf.png


So I'm trying to write the equations of motion for the particle P. I've already figured the kinematics of the particle, tracking it with a position vector, deriving position to get velocity, and deriving velocity to get its inertial acceleration. For the forces acting on it, there is of course its weight mg acting downward, and also its two normal forces N1 and N2 both acting in the e,r direction, except they're both in opposite directions. Am I correct in thinking this, and are there more forces acting on the particle that I am not taking into account?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There's already an N1 labelled on the diagram.
The particle will have only one force from the sides of the tube unless it is a very tight fit.
Note: I'd be inclined to do this by Lagrangian mechanics.
 
Sorry for the confusion - the N1 labeled on the diagram is the name of one of the reference frames that I am using.
I'm not familiar with the method of Lagrangian mechanics, but I am using the Transport Theorem to relate one reference frame to another.
I wrote the inertial position vector as r,vector = r k,hat + r e,r,hat, where k,hat and e,r,hat are unit vectors.
I then derived these with the Transport Theorem to get inertial velocity and acceleration.
But I can see from the figure that the particle is very tightly fitted into the slot. In this case, would the two normal forces be equal and opposite in direction so that they both cancel?
 
In a tight fit - the normal forces would act like pressure ... one will be bigger than the other, which depends on position. It is probably easier to just deal with the unbalanced normal force.

Another one I'd try would be a rotating spherical coordinate system - which I suspect you are using. The object would experience centrifugal and coriolis forces as well as contact forces with the sides (and weight) - don't forget the tube the object sits in is 3D - there should be ##\hat{e}_\phi## forces too (if it's rotating at a constant speed, then they should cancel).

It is important to keep your notation clear.
It is common to use S to label reference frames - but try to pick something you don't use for anything else.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 75 ·
3
Replies
75
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
932
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
10
Views
2K