What Are Others' Perspectives on Reality and Energy?

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

It is what you are experiancing, in your imagination, right now, the Sensual experience of it. ('Sensual' in this instance, meaning; "the totality of all of the sense inputs acting/feeling as one"...same thing for me.)

It has a 'perception of flow' (time) inasmuch as it is persistent in its motion(s), as well.

does that help?

 

[Wolf]

so then...

so you say it is perspective and perseption...interesting i have seen many people with this theory. I only know few with the believe that it is a physical reresentation of energy and that when you feel gravity or another "physics force" (presure,tension etc) that is the energy following a certain patern of movement or action that the energy has or does.This theory also goes on further for one's own body and skills and knowledge.

 

[Wolf]

By the way

Anyone reading this thread i would be very pleased to discuss other theories of reaity so please post your beleives.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Given that all any of us have to relate 'the experience' is subjective testimony, trying to tell someone of the "Oneness of feeling" that is the experience of reality, given the differentiations that are the subtlties, of aging, in life, of learning, environment, all of what promotes (or inhibits) this type of experience, well, if you get there, great! if your are not there, yet, just do what all of the ones who got there did, keep trying...!

(P.S. And please remeber to have some fun while you are doing some of it, but not all of it...)

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Wolf
Anyone reading this thread i would be very pleased to discuss other theories of reaity so please post your beleives.

What is reality? Reality is a physical construct of processes (not static entities), which are constantly in motion.

 

[Royce]

Reality is spiritual God. All else is manifestations of that spiritual reality and is illusion. Physical matter is the ulimate illusion as spirit is the ultimate reality.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Royce
Reality is spiritual God. All else is manifestations of that spiritual reality and is illusion. Physical matter is the ulimate illusion as spirit is the ultimate reality.

I'm not disputing, this is an actual question:

Why are we not conscious of the mind of God, if we are all mere extensions thereof?

 

[Royce]

Originally posted by Mentat
I'm not disputing, this is an actual question:

Why are we not conscious of the mind of God, if we are all mere extensions thereof?

We all are unconsciously aware of the mind of God and his mind touches ours all the time but we may not realize that it is God doing this. To become consciously aware we must look beyound the material everyday world with "altered states of consciousness" into "alternate realities". I use quotes because the terms while in common use are not really correct. An altered state of consciousness may mean a deep medatative state or simply a moment of quiet acceptance or contemplation.
There is only one reality so alternate realities is not the correct term. It is simply looking at reality a different way and seeing that which is beyond the mundane material reality of day to day life.
I offered my post as an alternative answer of yours to Wolf's question of what is reality.
Again matter, material, is the effect not the cause or source of all that is. You yourself have said that matter and enegry are different states or forms of the same thing, energy waves or fields. If this is the case, and it is, then why think that all that exists is or is a product of matter when matter itself is a product of energy. Rather than being a materialist wouldn't it be more appropriate to say you are an energyist, to coin a new term?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Uhmm don't you risk confuing the difference 'tween energies that demonstrate life's activities, from energy that constructs a rock?

Think that those energies are the same?
(you know the energies that grow all of the food!)

(No, peronally I do not argue a "different source" All/Omni=God=Truth, no problemo, but clearly, in Its presentation to US,it is diferentiated)

 

[Royce]

Mr. R B,
I don't risk it. I never claimed that all energy is the same. The term "energy is a generic term we apply to a non-material phenomenon that we can neither understand nor can define; but, we can detect and observe its effects. There are as many forms of energy as there are things in the universe.
A plant lives yet may contain and need many of the same things that the rock is made of; yet, it lives while the rock doesn't. Clearly it contains or is influenced by some form of energy or force that the rock does/is not.

Either its presentation or our perception of it is differentiated.
To see more clearly we must change the way we look as things and be willing to look at things differently. This is all I'm saying.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Royce
Mr. R B, Uhmm, ya, it's R. P. Not B[/color]
I don't risk it. I never claimed that all energy is the same. The term "energy is a generic term we apply to a non-material phenomenon that we can neither understand nor can define; but, we can detect and observe its effects. There are as many forms of energy as there are things in the universe.
A plant lives yet may contain and need many of the same things that the rock is made of; yet, it lives while the rock doesn't. Clearly it contains or is influenced by some form of energy or force that the rock does/is not.
Either its presentation or our perception of it is differentiated.
To see more clearly we must change the way we look as things and be willing to look at things differently. This is all I'm saying.

Hummm, I suspect that it is neither "presented to us", nor "a perception" (sorta) inasmuch as I susect that as an energy "it" is, simply put, invisible to us completely, ('completely' in this case means 'Absolutely un-measurable' too!) and this is the reason 'why' when we take the Water out of a cell, it dies, and cannot be "re'started" (as if it were a 'mechanical' thing) like a car (lead acid) battery which will basically turn itself off and on relative to us removing and replacing the acid...mechanically.

I suspect that, in the cell, the 'invisible' energy that is at work there, simply disappears from its "intersecting portal" (for lack of a better wording) when its 'supension sys.' (the water) is removed, hence we see "Death of the System", we don't know, neither can we prove, that the energy itself "died" or simply did return to some of other plain/dimension/universe(?).

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Royce
We all are unconsciously aware of the mind of God and his mind touches ours all the time but we may not realize that it is God doing this. To become consciously aware we must look beyound the material everyday world with "altered states of consciousness" into "alternate realities". I use quotes because the terms while in common use are not really correct. An altered state of consciousness may mean a deep medatative state or simply a moment of quiet acceptance or contemplation.
There is only one reality so alternate realities is not the correct term. It is simply looking at reality a different way and seeing that which is beyond the mundane material reality of day to day life.
I offered my post as an alternative answer of yours to Wolf's question of what is reality.
Again matter, material, is the effect not the cause or source of all that is. You yourself have said that matter and enegry are different states or forms of the same thing, energy waves or fields. If this is the case, and it is, then why think that all that exists is or is a product of matter when matter itself is a product of energy. Rather than being a materialist wouldn't it be more appropriate to say you are an energyist, to coin a new term?

Well, Materialism actually refers to the belief that all things are physical, and energy is physical. I said (in response to Wolf) that reality is a physical construct. Anyway, doesn't your philosophy justify using drugs to reach altered states of consciousness? Also, do all altered states of consciousness bring you closer to the mind of God, or is there a specific state one should look for?

 

[Royce]

I have never used drugs so I casn not testify to their effectiveness. I personally wouldn't trust anything I saw or found while under the influence of drugs.
Meditation can bring use closer to the mind of God but what I really think that is does is makes us conscious of our connection and oneness with reality as well as seeing and being in a different reality than we are use to seeing and being in during our everyday normal material lives. It is the same reality, there is only one, but we are able to percieve it differently. This different perception seems or feels more complete and more right than our normal reality.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Royce
I have never used drugs so I casn not testify to their effectiveness. I personally wouldn't trust anything I saw or found while under the influence of drugs.
Meditation can bring use closer to the mind of God but what I really think that is does is makes us conscious of our connection and oneness with reality as well as seeing and being in a different reality than we are use to seeing and being in during our everyday normal material lives. It is the same reality, there is only one, but we are able to percieve it differently. This different perception seems or feels more complete and more right than our normal reality.

Given that it can be shown that food does effectively have "Drugging" effects, (Less obvious and/or intense) just as does nicotine affect the mind in a perported ability to focus better, sugar is know to affect brain function, (in very short and real times) all kinds of things affect the human brain, odors/aroma's have been suggested as study aids, the idea of a drug Increasing effectiveness is sort of wrong, it is just a different approach to a viewpoint.

For myself my 'sortie' started in a forest, Meditation on a rock in the woods, trying to subdue my own fear of just being there all alone, by rational means (sorta effective) and (mostly) emotive training, AKA Tranquility...It sounds weird sort of that I would offer the subjective testimony of a sense of the tree's living energy, their reflection of my fear back at me, (as if they could feel it from me, and they were, in turn, "fearful") repeated, till the point in time (Lotsa that passed) when I could enter the forest without fear of it, thus the reflection of the energies from within the trees, towards myself, became a completely different thing, nice! to the point where on "Soft-Breezy days" it was almost (or was it just my happiness inside me?) as if you could feel that the tress were "Happy" with this particular kind of weather*[/color]...but that is all subjective testimony, has a quality that allows me to discount it completely (for your sake) so's as to ensure that we all stay on the page(s) (of what we know is provable) unless we intend a discourse upon metaphysics exclusively...

*[/color]And a P.S. NO DRUGS USED THERE!

 

[Royce]

Mr.R.P.(sorry about the typo before)
I was going to say that I didn't use drugs other than caffine, nicotine, sugar, chocolate and occasionally alcohol but I left it out for brevity's sake.
Read about what you experienced brought to mind the Druids and others who thought or felt the all such thinks conainded or were spirits. To me what you experience is the oneness of all life and its interaction. In other threads I have related my experiences with raising tomatoes.
If we are in touch with our selves and life we become aware of the responses of plants etc and come to realize that they too in there own way are conscious and aware. I have said this before in other threads.
We may not want to get into metaphysics but I don't think that it can be avoided. Much of reality is subjective as well as much of it being spiritual. You will have no problem with me trying to make you prove subjective experiences. Anyway since all that exists is material or a product of material then subjectivity must also be material so Mentat should have no problem with it either.

 

[Royce]

Mentat,
There is no specfic state that we can try for.
Trying the the very opposite of what we are doing.
This is why I keep saying that we must be accepting. We quiten our minds and sit passively willing to listen and observe, willing to accept whatever we are shown or given. We let go and let happen whatever will happen. It is my understanding that we will be given that which we need and can accept and handle at the moment. We can contemplate something or nothing. We can have a specific question in mind; but, we cannot try to see or do or reach anything specific.
It is like a baby learning to walk. We start out learning to stand up without support not running across the room.

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Royce
I have never used drugs so I casn not testify to their effectiveness. I personally wouldn't trust anything I saw or found while under the influence of drugs.
Meditation can bring use closer to the mind of God but what I really think that is does is makes us conscious of our connection and oneness with reality as well as seeing and being in a different reality than we are use to seeing and being in during our everyday normal material lives. It is the same reality, there is only one, but we are able to percieve it differently. This different perception seems or feels more complete and more right than our normal reality.

But living in this "dream world" (if you'll forgive the term) could put one in danger of losing their common sense, could it not? Aside from this, what makes you think that this new reality is the right one instead of the one that we live our day-to-day lives in? Isn't that just what a person on drugs might think?

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Royce
Mentat,
There is no specfic state that we can try for.
Trying the the very opposite of what we are doing.
This is why I keep saying that we must be accepting. We quiten our minds and sit passively willing to listen and observe, willing to accept whatever we are shown or given. We let go and let happen whatever will happen. It is my understanding that we will be given that which we need and can accept and handle at the moment. We can contemplate something or nothing. We can have a specific question in mind; but, we cannot try to see or do or reach anything specific.
It is like a baby learning to walk. We start out learning to stand up without support not running across the room.

Hmmm...but again I wonder, isn't this complacency and acceptance somewhat dangerous? Isn't it like a person under the influence of drugs, just accepting his "new reality" as being real?

 

[Royce]

One, it is not complacency, it is letting go and letting happen what will happen rather than trying to force thing to happen by our will while meditating.
Two, it does not do away with common sense but enhances it and brings understanding to why it is common sense.
Three, there is no danger as we know that it is true or false we know real from illusion and distraction. If you ever experience it you will know what I'm talking about.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Royce
Mr.R.P.(sorry about the typo before) "No Problemo"...(thanks)[/color]
I was going to say that I didn't use drugs other than caffine, nicotine, sugar, chocolate and occasionally alcohol but I left it out for brevity's sake. Me too![/color]
Read about what you experienced brought to mind the Druids and others who thought or felt the all such thinks conainded or were spirits. To me what you experience is the oneness of all life and its interaction. In other threads I have related my experiences with raising tomatoes.
If we are in touch with our selves and life we become aware of the responses of plants etc and come to realize that they too in there own way are conscious and aware. I have said this before in other threads.
We may not want to get into metaphysics but I don't think that it can be avoided. Much of reality is subjective as well as much of it being spiritual. You will have no problem with me trying to make you prove subjective experiences. Anyway since all that exists is material or a product of material then subjectivity must also be material so Mentat should have no problem with it either.

Thanks appreciate that but I would still stay away from the metaphysical that I know for personal reasons (that 'tree' post "caught up to me" in less then one day, God's Grace, "No Problemo" though...) and the simplicity that some of it is outside of the normal realm of thoughts of most people, no need for them to ever (even so little as) think like that, or about such things.

But I like what you also stated, (below you post, quoted herein) makes me think of the things in my life like the cross country skiing that I used to be able to indulge in, and arouses reminders of the times leaving the house around 9.30/10.00 Am, skiing to a restaurant to have lunch, ("Soup and a Sandwich" waaaaaay before it was 'popular') getting back home around 4.00/4.30 Pm, skied 24 miles through the forests, remember thinking that I was doing more work, "skiing" through the forest, then some of the very labour intensive employments that I had had, and yet loving it...how long it took me to "train" to be able to do that, as I had only started cross country skiing when I was 16, here I was in my mid twenties making 24 miles in a day. (No! not even close to what Olympic "Cross country Skiers" can do, Women too)

All that time I had had with this really good circulation going on in the midst of this intense physical training, (Feeds the brain, well!) and the thought processes, the sensitivity of the body to nutritional needs in such endevours, learning times...still going on, Thank God for that! (IMHO)

 

[Mentat]

Originally posted by Royce
One, it is not complacency, it is letting go and letting happen what will happen rather than trying to force thing to happen by our will while meditating.

What's the difference?

Two, it does not do away with common sense but enhances it and brings understanding to why it is common sense.

Interesting. Can you expound on this point a little, please?

Three, there is no danger as we know that it is true or false we know real from illusion and distraction. If you ever experience it you will know what I'm talking about.

So we do know whether something is part of the illusion or whether it is real?

 

[Royce]

Mentat,
Complacency connotates self satisfaction or unawareness of a lack. If one were complacent then one would feel or have no need to meditate or ask questions. Being quiet and passively receptive is not the same as complacency.

Common sense is usually taken to mean that something makes sense without knowing the reason why it makes sense. It is , or usually thought of, as being intuitively obvious. At times while meditating or afterwards while digesting that which was experienced, we often see the reasoning behind something that is accepted as true or is intuitively obvious.
This is not a really good example of understanding common sense but it will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The bible says that the sins of the father will be visited upon the sons for three generations. This is usually thought of to mean that when the father sins his sons will be guilty of the sin too and held accountable for the sins of the father. It is my understanding that what this really means is that when a father sins it is out of ignorance or character flaw. If the father does not have the knowledge or character to teach his sons differently, he can't teach what he himself does not have or know, then his sons too will be lacking and it will take three generations for that lack to be made up for or done away with. The first is an example of a fearful avenging God of the old testament the latter an example of a loving and understanding God of the new testament who knows and realizes how life on Earth works.
I came to this different view and interpetation while meditating.

Yes, usually while meditating we know that something is true or not, whether it is real or an illusion and whether it is meaningful and relevant or merely a distraction. It has a different feel or flavor to it. Even if we want something to be true or meaningful and get hungup with a distraction, deep down inside we know it for what it is and eventually have to let it go and face what is real and true not what we want to be real or true.
There is no place to hide from the light or the truth. We all stand naked before our God with our souls bared for him to see all. Yet, there is no shame nor guilt unless we ourselves cling to it for our own personal reasons. God understands and loves us God does not condemn nor punish us. We do that to ourselves. God does not forgive us as no forgivness is necessary where there is understanding and love. It is only for us to forgive ourselves as well as others.
This I know as true and this is part of what I have been shown.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Royce
(SNIP)[/color] There is no place to hide from the light or the truth. We all stand naked before our God with our souls bared for him to see all. Yet, there is no shame nor guilt unless we ourselves cling to it for our own personal reasons. God understands and loves us God does not condemn nor punish us. We do that to ourselves. (SNoP)[/color]

Amen.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

As is the nature of my life, this...

originally posted par moi
(SNIP)[/color] skied 24 miles through the forests (SNoP)[/color]

Apparently I erred in my math, it is 24 KMS not miles...but it is interesting to me that it really isn't the distance that counts, (it is, but just not that much) it is the time, as what was going on at that point in time in my life, three/four years after I had finished Puberty, learning something called "Meditation In Motion", sort of like "In the Zone" (I suppose) but really an internal learning that cannot be found in any books (other then the "book within") and is only there, for people, when they are ready, if at all as some will never know it.

 

[radagast]

Other than the interpretation that the experience implies god (and the other theistic interpretations), I have to agree with Royce. The term that pops to my mind, rather than common sense, is clarity of thought.

Back some thirty years ago, I had tried hallucinogens. They do have the power to help you understand your own mind, but they are a double edged sword. It is extremely easy to fall into the trap of using them simply as entertainment or escape. Also, the fact that they alter the way your mind normally works, on such a basic level, leaves you with more insights into how your mind works on the drugs, than off. I had known many, many people that used them back in the 60s, 70s, few, if any attained any understanding.

Meditation is a much more solid path to understanding how your mind works, to clarity of thought and action, and to accepting that which cannot be changed. It's much harder and slower, but something whose results can be trusted.

 

[Jeebus]

Originally posted by radagast
Other than the interpretation that the experience implies god (and the other theistic interpretations), I have to agree with Royce. The term that pops to my mind, rather than common sense, is clarity of thought.

Alright, I contemplated the difference of common sense and clarity of thought for a while, but I am not seeing a prerogative that alters any application of the two. Would you care to help clarify and reach a consensus that juxtaposes the differences?

Thank you.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by radagast
(SNIP)[/color] Meditation is a much more solid path to understanding how your mind works, to clarity of thought and action, and to accepting that which cannot be changed. It's much harder and slower, but something whose results can be trusted. (SNoP)[/color]

Yup!

The 'path' is the thing that is what most people are on, but don't realize, and it is important to realize not just the reward of the learning of "self" forgiveness (Always only in God's light!) but that the entrance to that path begins in the learning of Forgiveness of 'others' first, and foremost.

It is a clear aspect of what knowledge of a "Truth" enables, "Solidity of Path" (knowledge) even in the dark. (neat!)

 

[Royce]

Mr. P,
Two thing to add rather than dispute or disagree.
1. it is the path and our travels along it that is the important process, not the goal or the end of the path that is the most important. It is only while traveling along our paths that we learn and grow and we each have our own path and travel at our own rate. I know that you know this. I put it down only so that others can know.
2. Forgin=ving others is the easy part; but, just, if not more, important is forgiving ourselves. This is the hardest part for me, learning to fortgive myself. Do all of you find this as hard as I do or am I merely harder and more unforgiving of myself. Only through self forgiveness can we find true peace and harmony with in.

radagast,
In my mind clarity of thought and common sense go hand in hand but are not necessarily the same thing. In fact I think that if we should achive true clarity of thought, common sense would become meaningless and be replaced with understanding and harmony. I am having trouble with the term common sense, what does it mean? Does it differ for each of us or is it cultural or societal? How would I best answere Mentat's question? Common sense was just that, common and accepted. I never thought much about it.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Royce
(SNIP)[/color] Forgin=ving others is the easy part; but, just, if not more, important is forgiving ourselves. This is the hardest part for me, learning to fortgive myself. Do all of you find this as hard as I do or am I merely harder and more unforgiving of myself. Only through self forgiveness can we find true peace and harmony with in.
(SNoP)[/color]

Myself, I found self acceptance worked. don't know if I always forgive myself, but rather, try to find "self acceptance" from the lesson(s) that (obviously) needed to be learned. (by me/myself)

It's sort of like if I can learn, well enough, from it, to not repeat it, then I can accept it...it was what I needed to learn...

 

[Royce]

Yeah, acceptance is the first step. Then embracing it. I think that this would be your accepting it as a lesson that you needed to learn. The last step is letting it go so that it no longer has any effect on us. It no longer has any guilt or shame attached to it but is simply a memory of a lesson learned or experience that makes us who and what we are.
I think that I suppressed so much of this stuff while young that I never dealt with it at the time. Now I have to dig it up and figure out what it meant to me at the time and why. Once I understand then I can deal with it. Often the hardest part is figuring out what the hell this is all about and why should it surface now. It usually is so trivial and in consequential that I don't know why it is still there in the first place.
It is meditation that brings all of this and other things to mind or consciousness and shows me how to deal with it. It isn't always easy and often puzzling at first.