What are the equal-and-opposite forces of friction forces?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a block resting on a table with a second block hanging over the side, connected by a rope. Participants are tasked with identifying all forces acting on the blocks, table, and Earth, particularly focusing on the friction forces and their equal and opposite pairs as described by Newton's laws.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to identify the forces acting on each object, particularly the friction forces, and expresses confusion about the nature of these forces and their equal and opposite counterparts.
  • Some participants suggest drawing force diagrams to clarify the situation.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of friction and its role in opposing relative motion between surfaces.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively exploring the concept of friction and its implications in the context of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the nature of friction forces and their dependence on relative motion, which appears to have helped clarify some confusion for the original poster.

Contextual Notes

The original poster expresses uncertainty about the friction forces and their equal and opposite pairs, indicating a need for deeper understanding of these concepts within the framework of Newton's laws.

thecommexokid
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Homework Statement



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A block rests on a table, and a second block, connected to the first with a rope, hangs over the side of the table. See the illustration. (Assume the pulley is massless and frictionless.) All objects pictured are stationary.

Identify every force involved in the pictured situation.

Homework Equations



Newton II and III.

The Attempt at a Solution



None of block 1, block 2, the table, or the Earth are accelerating, so Newton II tells us the net force on each of the 4 objects must be 0. I'll identify forces in opposite pairs a la Newton III:
  • Gravitational force of Earth exerted on block 1
  • Gravitational force of block 1 exerted on earth
  • Gravitational force of Earth exerted on block 2
  • Gravitational force of block 2 exerted on earth
  • Gravitational force of Earth exerted on table
  • Gravitational force of table exerted on earth
  • Normal force of table exerted on block 1
  • Normal force of block 1 exerted on table
  • Normal force of Earth exerted on table
  • Normal force of table exerted on earth
  • Tension of rope exerted on block 1 due to block 2
  • Tension of rope exerted on block 2 due to block 1
  • Force of friction exerted on block 1 due to table
  • ? Force of friction exerted on table due to block 1 ?
  • Force of friction exerted on table due to earth
  • ? Force of friction exerted on Earth due to table ?
As you might have guessed from all the question marks, I'm confused about the opposite pairs to the friction forces. Obviously I need to include them for the table and the Earth to be in equilibrium, but I don't really know what they mean.

When I say, "The table exerts a force of friction on block 1," what I mean is that the block would be moving laterally across the table, except that the friction force of the table's surface opposes that motion.

But if I try to form the analogous statement, it does not seem to me to be the case that the Earth would be moving laterally beneath the table, except that the friction force of the table's feet opposes that motion. What gives?
 
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Have you drawn your force diagrams for each object?
 
thecommexokid said:
As you might have guessed from all the question marks, I'm confused about the opposite pairs to the friction forces. Obviously I need to include them for the table and the Earth to be in equilibrium, but I don't really know what they mean.

When I say, "The table exerts a force of friction on block 1," what I mean is that the block would be moving laterally across the table, except that the friction force of the table's surface opposes that motion.

But if I try to form the analogous statement, it does not seem to me to be the case that the Earth would be moving laterally beneath the table, except that the friction force of the table's feet opposes that motion. What gives?
Friction is a force that opposes the relative motion between two surfaces that are in contact. It does not matter which direction the surfaces are moving or would be moving relative to some particular rest frame. What matters is which direction the surfaces are moving or would be moving relative to each other.
 
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jbriggs444 said:
It does not matter which direction the surfaces are moving or would be moving relative to some particular rest frame. What matters is which direction the surfaces are moving or would be moving relative to each other.

Cool. I think that clears up my confusion.
 

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