What are valid coordinate transforms (diffeomorphisms)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of coordinate transformations (diffeomorphisms) in the context of general relativity (GR) and their implications for physical interpretation. Participants explore the nature of these transformations, particularly in Minkowski space, and consider how different coordinate systems can affect the representation of spacetime events.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that certain transformations, like x* = t - x/2 and t* = t + x/2, create two 'equally timelike' coordinates, raising questions about their physical interpretation and the identification of spacelike hypersurfaces.
  • Another participant states that the standard definition of a valid coordinate transformation requires a one-to-one, smooth mapping with a smooth inverse, which they believe the proposed transformation satisfies.
  • Some participants note that there is no requirement for coordinate basis vectors to be orthonormal, implying that transformations can include configurations with multiple timelike or spacelike coordinates.
  • A similar transformation using u = x + t and v = x - t is referenced, which results in two null basis vectors, illustrating that coordinates in GR lack inherent meanings.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the metric associated with these transformations, highlighting the presence of off-diagonal terms and the nature of the resulting basis vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the transformations discussed are valid under the definitions provided, but there is no consensus on the physical implications or interpretations of these coordinate systems.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential ambiguity in the physical meaning of transformed coordinates and the absence of a clear identification of spacelike hypersurfaces in the proposed transformations.

PAllen
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The thread bcrowell had on time reversal in GR got me thinking about this. Some limitations are obvious: mapping two events onto one, discontinuity,...

I will use x*, t*, etc. to refere to tansformed coordinates (primes always confuse me with derivatives).

Similarly, the transform x* = t, t* =x, is really just relabeling the time axis with the letter x instead of t; it isn't really doing anything physical. You would have to identify x* as the coordinate with all the properties of time after this transform. Physics doesn't care what letter I use.

But what about something like the following, based on a starting coordinate system that is maximally inertial minkowski in some local region (I assume c=1):

x*=t-x/2
t*=t+x/2

I now have two 'equally timelike' coordinates. Two of the basis vectors would be inside light cones instead of one. I can't see anything that prohibits this, yet I don't quite understand how to understand physics in such a coordinate system (for example, it doesn't identify any spacelike hypersurface).

Any insights welcomed.
 
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Well, the standard definition is that it must be a one-to-one map between points in the manifold and points in R(n), and that it must be smooth and its inverse must be smooth. So I think that your coordinate system above satisfies all of that. There is not a requirement that the coordinate basis vectors be orthonormal, so I think that the absence of that requirement implies that you are not restricted to coordinate systems with 3 spacelike and 1 timelike coordinate basis vectors.

To get a physical feeling it sometimes helps to write the metric. In this case you get two spacelike terms (y² and z²) two timelike terms (t*² and x*²) and one off-diagonal term which can be either timelike or spacelike (t* x*).
 
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I agree with DaleSpam that there is nothing wrong with the coordinates defined in #1. A similar example in Minkowski space is u=x+t, v=x-t, which I think is fairly common, and gives you two null basis vectors. The basic idea is that coordinates in GR don't have built-in meanings.
 
bcrowell said:
A similar example in Minkowski space is u=x+t, v=x-t, which I think is fairly common, and gives you two null basis vectors. The basic idea is that coordinates in GR don't have built-in meanings.
Yes. And you can see that they are null vectors by looking at the metric again. In this case the metric is -uv-y²-z². So u and v are indeed null vectors which do not contribute to the spacetime interval by themselves at all, and again an off-diagonal term uv appears which can be either timelike or spacelike.
 

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