What Can We Expect from the LHC Tour in 2019 and Beyond?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the experiences and expectations related to visiting the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Switzerland, particularly in the context of tours available in 2019 and beyond. Participants share insights on tour types, accommodations, and the significance of the LHC in the broader landscape of particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe various types of tours available at CERN, including surface facilities and potential underground visits during the 2019-2020 shutdown.
  • There is mention of the cost and availability of hotels in Geneva, with suggestions for cheaper accommodations on the French side.
  • One participant references a blog post by Hossenfelder, suggesting that the LHC may be the last particle accelerator built, which is contested by others who point out that new accelerators like SuperKEKB have been constructed.
  • Some participants discuss the potential for future particle colliders, including a larger accelerator in China that may operate with both electron-positron and proton-proton collisions.
  • There is speculation about the existence of new physics at energy levels beyond 100 TeV, with references to anomalies in B physics that could indicate new particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the future of particle accelerators, with some asserting that the LHC may be the last of its kind while others argue that new projects are underway. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of high-energy physics and the potential for new discoveries.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various assumptions about the future of particle physics and the significance of energy levels, but these remain speculative and are not universally accepted. The discussion also highlights the distinction between fundamental science projects and industrial applications of particle accelerators.

seazal
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Who has traveled to see LHC in Switzerland? How much of it have you seen and allowable to see?

For 2019, What is the schedule of visit? Does it only occur during shutdown?

What hotel did you stay? How was your LHC tour overall? Please share your experiences.
 
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I have been there many times, but I got access from working there and I have never been on an official tour, so it probably doesn't help if I answer the questions literally.

There are different types of tours, they typically have surface facilities only. CERN Control Center or ATLAS Control Center, the Magnet Test Facility, the Globe, the Microcosm exhibition or something like that.
In 2019 and 2020 we have a long shutdown so some tours can include underground visits, but they will have limited slots and they will be very popular. Check the CERN website for more information and be quick with registration if they offer a tour that includes a detector underground.
seazal said:
What hotel did you stay?
There are many hotels in Geneva but they tend to be expensive. If you don't mind a bus trip (or if you have a car anyway) you can stay somewhere on the French side, things tend to be much cheaper there. Or plan the trip to not stay there over night, if possible.I don't know your overall travel plans, but if you are flexible: There are many research institutes that offer tours, some of them have more things you can see.
DESY (Hamburg, Germany) had the HERA accelerator which is shut down now, that means all their tours go there. You can see parts of the Hera-B experiment (partially decommissioned, but most of it is still there), you can go into the actual accelerator tunnel and see the accelerator (something you normally cannot do at the LHC, even during a shutdown), you can see an experiment hall for the PETRA facility while it is running (the actual accelerator ring is behind a lot of concrete shielding, however).
GSI (Darmstadt, Germany) has tours that include various experimental stations and a view at the FAIR construction site.
PSI (middle of nowhere, northern Switzerland) has tours, I don't know what exactly they include ("takes you around the large research facilities or the energy research labs" according to the website).
And so on.
 
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mfb said:
I have been there many times, but I got access from working there and I have never been on an official tour, so it probably doesn't help if I answer the questions literally.

There are different types of tours, they typically have surface facilities only. CERN Control Center or ATLAS Control Center, the Magnet Test Facility, the Globe, the Microcosm exhibition or something like that.

I'll tour it as a tourist and not as a visiting physicist. You were referring to tourist tour package and not university sanctioned tours, right?

In 2019 and 2020 we have a long shutdown so some tours can include underground visits, but they will have limited slots and they will be very popular. Check the CERN website for more information and be quick with registration if they offer a tour that includes a detector underground.There are many hotels in Geneva but they tend to be expensive. If you don't mind a bus trip (or if you have a car anyway) you can stay somewhere on the French side, things tend to be much cheaper there. Or plan the trip to not stay there over night, if possible.

According to Hossenfelder. It may be the last particle accelerator ever built. So want to see it before we return to the desert particle landscape and era. http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2018/12/how-lhc-may-spell-end-of-particle.html

"In summary: Since the naturalness-based predictions did not pan out, we have no reason to think that the remaining LHC run or an even larger particle collider would see any new physics that is not already explained by the standard model of particle physics. A larger collider would be able to measure more precisely the properties of already known particles, but that is arguably not a terribly exciting exercise. It will be a tough sell for a machine that comes at $10 billion and up. Therefore, it may very well be that the LHC will remain the largest particle collider in human history."
 
Everything I wrote was for tourists. I edited my post and added some more information.
seazal said:
According to Hossenfelder. It may be the last particle accelerator ever built.
That is certainly not true, even if we count the big fundamental science projects only (there are something like 10,000 particle accelerators used in the industry, medicine and so on). SuperKEKB was built after the LHC. It started operation earlier this year.
Largest and last are not the same thing.

China is quite confident that they can build a larger accelerator - first used for electron-positron collisions, with the option to have proton-proton collisions later.
 
mfb said:
Everything I wrote was for tourists. I edited my post and added some more information.That is certainly not true, even if we count the big fundamental science projects only (there are something like 10,000 particle accelerators used in the industry, medicine and so on). SuperKEKB was built after the LHC. It started operation earlier this year.
Largest and last are not the same thing.

I should have added "Largest". But what "10,000 particle accelerators used in the industry, medicine and so on" were you referring to, for example?

China is quite confident that they can build a larger accelerator - first used for electron-positron collisions, with the option to have proton-proton collisions later.

Can something still came up after 100 TeV or more?
 
seazal said:
But what "10,000 particle accelerators used in the industry, medicine and so on" were you referring to, for example?
Electron microscopes, focused ion beams/ion implantation, radionuclide production, ion beam therapy, material science with synchrotron radiation, neutron sources, ...
Wikipedia says 30,000 accelerators.
seazal said:
Can something still came up after 100 TeV or more?
After 100 TeV? We know for sure there is new physics at very high energy levels, way beyond the reach of anything we could dream of today, we just don't know if it starts earlier. Before 100 TeV? Possible. The next years will be interesting. There are some interesting anomalies in B physics that could point to new particles, if they are confirmed then the following years could give us a rough mass estimate.
 

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