What Causes a Brinicle to Form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of brinicles, particularly focusing on the physics behind their creation in a marine environment. Participants explore the conditions under which seawater and fresh water freeze, as well as the behavior of liquid brine in colder temperatures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express admiration for the documentary footage and the narration style, indicating a general interest in the subject matter.
  • One participant questions the physics of why fresh water would sink in seawater, noting that fresh water has a maximum density at +4 C and becomes less dense as it cools, which typically leads to ice floating.
  • A later reply clarifies that the liquid brine is at a lower temperature than the surrounding seawater, explaining that the high salinity of the brine allows it to remain liquid while the less saline seawater freezes around it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the fascinating nature of brinicle formation and the physics involved, but there is some uncertainty regarding the specific behaviors of fresh water and seawater under varying temperatures.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the temperatures and salinity levels of the water are not fully explored, and the discussion does not resolve the complexities of the interactions between fresh water and seawater.

Monique
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Amazing footage by BBC Nature, I had to share:

 
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This absolutely brilliant documentary series (Frozen Planet) is on tonight at 9 on BBC 1. Well worth a watch!
 
I love David Attenborough's voice! I bought the BBC version of Planet Earth just because he narrated it - not the US Susan Sarandon version.
 
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turbo said:
I love David Attenborough's voice! I bought the BBC version of Planet Earth just because he narrated it - not the US Susan Sarandon version.
We have "Planet Earth" queued up for the holiday so we can revisit this classic over a period of days and avoid the tripe that the networks are selling as "classics".

I'm no business-entertainment guru, but I'll be willing to bet that if a cable channel would loop Planet Earth continuously, parents would set their cable channel permissions accordingly. Their children would at least be a bit better educated.

Perhaps I'm a bit optimistic regarding the motivations of the parents...
 
Andy Resnick said:
whoa...

Can someone explain the physics involved here? I can understand seawater being liquid at say -3 C, and fresh water would freeze at this temperature, although not as fast as it appears to here. Why would fresh water sink in seawater? Fresh water has a maximum density at +4 C and becomes less dense at lower temperatures. That's why ice forms on the surface and floats.

EDIT: OK. I missed the first sentence the first time I saw this. This is a stream of liquid brine at a lower temperature than the seawater. Because of its high salinity the brine "finger" remains liquid, but the less saline seawater has a higher freezing point and freezes around the liquid column as the heavy brine descends. Fascinating.
 
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