What determines heaviness of objects in Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of heaviness, gravity, mass, and weight of objects in space, particularly focusing on planets and stars. Participants explore the implications of these concepts in the context of free fall and gravitational interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why planets and stars are considered heavy enough to exert gravity and not fall off into space.
  • Another participant states that all objects have mass and gravity, but the gravitational force is weak for smaller objects.
  • Participants discuss the formula for gravitational force, referencing Newton's law of gravity.
  • There are discussions about the definitions of weight, mass, and density, with examples like Saturn floating in water under Earth-level gravity.
  • Some participants highlight that everything in space is in free fall, which leads to the concept of zero weight in that context.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the concept of weight in relation to large celestial bodies like Saturn and the implications of Newton's third law on this understanding.
  • There are differing views on the definition of weight, with some suggesting it should only apply in specific gravitational interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the definitions and implications of weight and mass in space, indicating that there is no consensus on these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved with competing interpretations of weight and its relevance to large objects.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the ambiguity in the definitions of weight and the implications of free fall on the understanding of gravitational effects. There are unresolved questions regarding the application of these concepts to large celestial bodies.

Observer2000
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TL;DR
Why planets/stars are considered heavy?
Why for gravity some things like planets, stars are heavy enough to have a gravity so they don't fall of the space?

When a small object can free fall in space, why a planet has a gravity, and they are considered heavy to what formula?
 
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All objects, large and small, have mass and have gravity. It's just too weak to have much effect for anything smaller than something like an asteroid.

The formula for calculating the force of gravity is Newton's law of gravity, ##F=GMm/r^2##.
 
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Thank you Ibix, I will check this out.

Cheers!
 
Everything "in space" is in free fall: satellites, asteroids, comets, planets, stars, black holes, galaxies. They all move according to their combined gravitational attraction.
 
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Observer2000 said:
Why planets/stars are considered heavy?
I suggest that you learn the concepts of weight, mass, and density.

Jupiter Saturn is a very large planet with a large mass, but if it were put into a large enough bathtub with Earth level gravity it would float. Does that count has "heavy"?

As @PeroK pointed out, things in space are generally in free fall which means that they have zero weight.

EDIT: corrected: Saturn, not Jupiter, is lighter than water. My thanks to @SammyS for the correction.
 
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phinds said:
Jupiter is a very large planet with a large mass, but if it were put into a large enough bathtub with Earth level gravity it would float.
If you put Jupiter into a bathtub large enough to to contain it, the bathtub water would fall into Jupiter.

If you had a bathtub large enough to contain the water, it would take the form of a spherical blob of water with a crumpled up bathtub in the center.

phinds said:
As @PeroK pointed out, things in space are generally in free fall which means that they have zero weight.
"Weight" can be an ambiguous concept. By one definition, it is the force of gravity on an object. So ##W = mg##. By another definition, it is the force that would be needed to support an object, keeping it stationary in the chosen frame of reference. So for an earthbound object ##W = mg - F_\text{centrifugal}##.

If we use the former definition, things in space have non-zero "weight".

If we use the latter definition, things in space have [near] zero "weight" relative to a reference frame tied to the space craft within which they float.

Some might even define "weight" as the actual downforce currently exerted by an object on its support. So the "weight" of an athlete jumping up and down would vary during the exercise.
 
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phinds said:
Saturn is a very large planet with a large mass, but if it were put into a large enough bathtub with Earth level gravity it would float. Does that count has "heavy"?
That thing abut Saturn is a real hindrance to understanding. N3 always applies and ruins the Saturn example because what would be 'attracting Saturn' for Saturn to have actual weight? It's just another of those things, originally introduced by someone with poor understanding of the consequences of over-simplification.

There aught to be a LAW which forbids use of the word "weight" in all cases that don't actually involve a small object being pulled to an extremely large one, i.e. an interaction between a planet and a small object. But perhaps 'mass' is a harder concept than I think. Weight and Mass is the number one stock joke about Physics teachers. I'm afraid I blame the present status of Weight on the people who insist on keeping to the pound.

(There's no point in telling me about the 'slug' because there are even fewer people who recognise that term.)
 
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