What does it mean for a function to be N-times differentiable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of N-times differentiability for functions mapping from \(\mathbb{R}^n\) to \(\mathbb{R}^m\). Participants explore the implications of this term, including the conditions required for a function to be considered N-times differentiable, and the relationship between partial derivatives and differentiability.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether N-times differentiability implies more than the existence of all partial derivatives \(\partial_1^{k_1} \partial_2^{k_2} \cdots \partial_n^{k_n} f_j\) for \(k_1+k_2+\cdots+k_n=N\).
  • Another suggests that a theorem stating the continuity of all partial derivatives in a neighborhood implies differentiability may be a more practical approach than the definition.
  • A different viewpoint posits that N-times differentiability can be interpreted as the existence and continuity of the N-th partial derivatives.
  • One participant notes that if the derivative of a map is a matrix-valued function, it could also imply differentiability in that context.
  • There is a distinction made between the "derivative at a given point" and the "derivative function," with emphasis on the complexity that arises with higher derivatives and mixed derivatives.
  • A participant raises a question about the dimensionality of the image of the derivative function, suggesting it should be in \(\mathbb{R}^{nm}\) rather than \(\mathbb{R}^{n+m}\), reflecting uncertainty about the terminology of multiple times differentiability.
  • Another participant acknowledges a mistake regarding the dimensionality of the derivative function's image, indicating a moment of reflection on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications and definitions of N-times differentiability, with no consensus reached on a singular interpretation or definition.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the continuity of derivatives and the definitions of differentiability may not be fully explored, leading to potential ambiguity in the discussion.

jostpuur
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Sometimes I've encountered functions [itex]f:\mathbb{R}^n\to\mathbb{R}^m[/itex] being called N-times differentiable. What does it mean, precisely?

I know that for a function to be differentiable, if is not enough that the partial derivatives [itex]\partial_i f_j[/itex] exist, but instead the derivative matrix [itex]Df[/itex] must exist and satisfy the equation

[tex] f(x+u)=f(x) + (Df)u + |u|\epsilon(u)[/tex]

which is more than only existence of the partial derivatives.

Does the N-times differentiability mean something else than only all partial derivatives [itex]\partial_1^{k_1} \partial_2^{k_2} \cdots \partial_n^{k_n} f_j[/itex], where [itex]k_1+k_2+\cdots+k_n=N[/itex], existing?
 
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To check differentiability it would be easier to use a thm rather than definition saying
if all the partial derivatives exists and continuous in a nhd of x then e say f is differentiable at x.
(note:I am not sure that this is the exact statement.Check from a textbook)
 
You can take it to mean that the N-th partials all exist and are continuous.
 
or if you know that the derivative of amap R^n-->R^n is a matrix bva;ued function, you can take it to mean that matrix valued function is differentiable, etc...
 
You should be careful to distinguish between the "derivative at a given point" and the "derivative function".

The derivative of a function from [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] to [itex]\mathbb{R}^m[/itex] is an n by m matrix, and so an object in [itex]\mathbb{R}^{n+m}[/itex] - for every point in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex]. The derivative function, then, is a function from [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] to [itex]\mathbb{R}^{n+m}[/itex] and so its derivative, the second derivative of the original function is an n by n+m matrix, an object in [itex]\mathbb{R}^{2n+m}[/itex]. As you take more and more, because of all those new mixed derivatives, it gets more and more complicated!

(Strictly speaking, a derivative is a linear transformation- we should say it can be represented by a matrix.)
 
But shouldn't the image of the derivative function be in [itex]\mathbb{R}^{nm}[/itex], and not in [itex]\mathbb{R}^{n+m}[/itex]?

The idea that we can start taking more derivatives and the dimensions just increase when this is done sounds good. I think I even had such thoughts at some point, but I wasn't sure if that is what is usually meant by this terminology of function being multiple times differentiable.
 
Yes, of course. Don't know what I was thinking! (Too early probably.)
 

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